TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

[danj]

Hi,
I have just installed a 750W 48V TSDZ2 with VLCD6 and a 14.5Ah Samsung battery. I'm new to this forum but have read a lot of your messages and am very interested in installing casainho's FOS 1.0.0 firmware with a 860C screen that should arrive very soon. The current installation works well but I would like to have more of the flexibility and information of this firmware that looks fantastic! I also want to install the temperature sensor. The only thing is that I am going for an extended tour (1500km) right after this new installation, without a lot of testing time.

My first question is:
Is there a simple way to roll back to the factory firmware and as such use my VLCD6 in case I have trouble during my tour?

Secondly, and this is maybe a wider question:
Are there any absolute DO's and DO NOT's for this installation setup? I'm sure that browsing through the whole forum will answer the question, but I was hoping for a top 2-3 key things.

Thank you very much for your time!

 

[Alphonse]

I have been working on this problem as well. A couple of questions for you on your settings:

Under "Assist Level" - are you using the default 20 assist levels? If so does the problem occur at all levels or above a certain level?

Under "Motor Control" - are you using Torque mode? Same screen, what maximum current are you using?

I'm sorry to answer so late. I have enabled 20 assist levels, but I never used higher than 12. Normaly I'm using 7 - 12. I will check tomorrow if this problem also occurs at lower levels.

other setup:
max power - 850W
max current - 18A
current ramp - 5
motor control - torque (I also changed to power, and the problem persisted). To change gear I have to practically stop pedaling for about a second (maybe half)

Okay, look forward to hearing back from you. I understand what you are experiencing since I had the same problem. See what you get with assist levels 9 and below. Also if you don't mind tell me what assist level factors you are using. Are they the same as these?

1 - 0.007
2 - 0.009
3 - 0.012
4 - 0.016
5 - 0.021
6 - 0.028
7 - 0.037
8 - 0.049
9 - 0.065
10 - 0.087
11 - 0.115
12 - 0.153
13 - 0.204
14 - 0.271
15 - 0.36
16 - 0.479
17 - 0.637
18 - 0.848
19 - 1.128
20 - 1.5

I have only one difference in my settings:
1 - 0.005
Other are the same

Thanks for confirming the actual numbers you are using. I was trying to confirm that these are the default settings but I was uncertain. I bought my setup for a supplier here in the US and was unsure if he'd changed the settings or not. (fat finger mistake on the 1 - .007, should have been .005).

I will put up a separate post here with a graphic as to what I think is contributing to this "overrun" issue.

 

[fireflyer451]

For those asking about assist level settings, my Assist Level settings for OSF 1.0 - using 10 assist levels - configured 7/10/2020 , recumbent trike. 48v motor, temp sensor and cooling mods installed.

 

[perryscope]

My first question is:
Is there a simple way to roll back to the factory firmware and as such use my VLCD6 in case I have trouble during my tour?

Secondly, and this is maybe a wider question:
Are there any absolute DO's and DO NOT's for this installation setup? I'm sure that browsing through the whole forum will answer the question, but I was hoping for a top 2-3 key things.

Thank you very much for your time!

I have been testing several TSDZ2 motors over the last year and have flashed then all back to stock multiple times without any issues.

The first thing I do when i get a new or 2nd hand motor is to take a copy of the stock firmware they come with just so i know i can put them back to exactly how they were shipped to me. I recently was given a motor to fix that was branded as 'Satori bikes EASY electronic assist system' its clearly a TSDZ2 bu tthe firmware on it was not the same as the stock images
I think its a very early example but Its good to 'backup' your own so you are 100% sure you can put it back to how it came if you ever need to. Just use the 'st visual programmer' software to do this for each of the tabs ( Program,Data,options) save each into its own file.

I have also played around with the fork of the opensource software that works with the existing screen, so have jumped between stok, that fork and the current 1.0.0 release here. Infact I find its often good to go back to stock between forks and mojor releases, As thats what they are expecting you to upgrade from.

I wrote some of my experience up on my blog here. https://empoweredpeople.co.uk/2020/05/28/tongsheng-tsdz2-what-firmware-options-are-there/ may be of interest?

As far as Do's and Dont's. I'm sure others will step in here with other examples but for me.

no1 is try to keep the motor dry!. ok may just be my experience of 2nd hand motors that i have been given to 'fix' but they do not cope with anything other than rain. deep water and powerwashing is very much a DONT!.

This is a recent motor I was given to fix, I opened up and you can see is had a tide line from being '"washed" after each ride.




So if you are adding the temperature sensor you will need to open the motor housing, That in itself is easy to reseal as it has a 'O' ring and a little grease will help there. but if you decide to ull out the driver ( to get access to the cables ) you will likly have to damage the silicon sealent around the main cables. This can be resealed with silicon again, but it can be tricky to get the cables to sit as flat as they were. so take your time and get it sealed well when your happy its working.

Adding the temp sensor is a very good idea, I would also try to check its reading what you expect using a second thermometer, the first batch of LM35 sensors i got were chineese clones and were not reading correct at all!.

i hope that helps.

 

[vass]

Hi,
I have just installed a 750W 48V TSDZ2 with VLCD6 and a 14.5Ah Samsung battery. I'm new to this forum but have read a lot of your messages and am very interested in installing casainho's FOS 1.0.0 firmware with a 860C screen that should arrive very soon. The current installation works well but I would like to have more of the flexibility and information of this firmware that looks fantastic! I also want to install the temperature sensor. The only thing is that I am going for an extended tour (1500km) right after this new installation, without a lot of testing time.

My first question is:
Is there a simple way to roll back to the factory firmware and as such use my VLCD6 in case I have trouble during my tour?

Secondly, and this is maybe a wider question:
Are there any absolute DO's and DO NOT's for this installation setup? I'm sure that browsing through the whole forum will answer the question, but I was hoping for a top 2-3 key things.

Thank you very much for your time!

As a fellow noob but that has a working update motor (mind i am still using the vlcd5 and the firmware for it that its based on casainhos code) i will try to help

1) very easy, when you first connect to the motor just backup the firmware (all tabs), later on you can put the backups back if needed (you will need to take a computer and the usb flasher with you on the ride)

2)
1)Read the wiki many times, also for the software i had to use win10 64 bits and make sure you put the software on the paths they should be or it wont work.

2) Temperature sensor its a little hard to install if like me you are not so good soldering, it helps alot if you have a controller with the 8 wires (no need to solder on controller ) and have a good iron and work station (i didnt have )

If you dont have alot of time before that big ride and you are newbie on stuff like this i guess you could also in the beggining just use the same firmware version i am using to setup all things needed and then afterwards go for caisinho firmware (its more difficult bcs you need also to make a cable and flash the display)
[/quote]

 

[perryscope]

For those asking about assist level settings, my Assist Level settings for OSF 1.0 - using 10 assist levels - configured 7/10/2020 , recumbent trike. 48v motor, temp sensor and cooling mods installed.

tsdz2-al-settings-7-10-2020.jpg

That's very interesting as your assist multiplier at level 10 is much lower than the '1.5' that the default 20 levels are set at?
out of interest how much power does the motor deliver at level 10 under heavy load?

On the 36V motor I have on the hand trike I am working on I found an assist level of 0.2 was hardly pushing the motor above 100W. and I need assist levels of 1.5 and higher to really get the motor to deliver between 300-500w (for the big hills)

 

[danj]

If

Hi,
I have just installed a 750W 48V TSDZ2 with VLCD6 and a 14.5Ah Samsung battery. I'm new to this forum but have read a lot of your messages and am very interested in installing casainho's FOS 1.0.0 firmware with a 860C screen that should arrive very soon. The current installation works well but I would like to have more of the flexibility and information of this firmware that looks fantastic! I also want to install the temperature sensor. The only thing is that I am going for an extended tour (1500km) right after this new installation, without a lot of testing time.

My first question is:
Is there a simple way to roll back to the factory firmware and as such use my VLCD6 in case I have trouble during my tour?

Secondly, and this is maybe a wider question:
Are there any absolute DO's and DO NOT's for this installation setup? I'm sure that browsing through the whole forum will answer the question, but I was hoping for a top 2-3 key things.

Thank you very much for your time!

As a fellow noob but that has a working update motor (mind i am still using the vlcd5 and the firmware for it that its based on casainhos code) i will try to help

1) very easy, when you first connect to the motor just backup the firmware (all tabs), later on you can put the backups back if needed (you will need to take a computer and the usb flasher with you on the ride)

2)
1)Read the wiki many times, also for the software i had to use win10 64 bits and make sure you put the software on the paths they should be or it wont work.

2) Temperature sensor its a little hard to install if like me you are not so good soldering, it helps alot if you have a controller with the 8 wires (no need to solder on controller ) and have a good iron and work station (i didnt have )

you dont have alot of time before that big ride and you are newbie on stuff like this i guess you could also in the beggining just use the same firmware version i am using to setup all things needed and then afterwards go for caisinho firmware (its more difficult bcs you need also to make a cable and flash the display)

[/quote]

Thank you very much vass for your quick reply, very kind of you! I'm a Mac user but still have a very old laptop with windows XP and was planning to use that one. Is there no way I could use it?
So, to roll back I would need to flash the motor controller again with the backup I saved. I assume it's a failsafe procedure, right?
I don't have a problem tinkering and soldering, and I have watched jbalatube video on installing the temperature sensor, so it seems doable to me (fingers crossed!)

[/quote]
[/quote]
If you dont have alot of time before that big ride and you are newbie on stuff like this i guess you could also in the beggining just use the same firmware version i am using to setup all things needed and then afterwards go for caisinho firmware (its more difficult bcs you need also to make a cable and flash the display)
[/quote]
[/quote]

Not sure I get this one, is there a way to use my vlcd6 with the new firmware?

Thanks again,

 

[vass]

If

Hi,
I have just installed a 750W 48V TSDZ2 with VLCD6 and a 14.5Ah Samsung battery. I'm new to this forum but have read a lot of your messages and am very interested in installing casainho's FOS 1.0.0 firmware with a 860C screen that should arrive very soon. The current installation works well but I would like to have more of the flexibility and information of this firmware that looks fantastic! I also want to install the temperature sensor. The only thing is that I am going for an extended tour (1500km) right after this new installation, without a lot of testing time.

My first question is:
Is there a simple way to roll back to the factory firmware and as such use my VLCD6 in case I have trouble during my tour?

Secondly, and this is maybe a wider question:
Are there any absolute DO's and DO NOT's for this installation setup? I'm sure that browsing through the whole forum will answer the question, but I was hoping for a top 2-3 key things.

Thank you very much for your time!

As a fellow noob but that has a working update motor (mind i am still using the vlcd5 and the firmware for it that its based on casainhos code) i will try to help

1) very easy, when you first connect to the motor just backup the firmware (all tabs), later on you can put the backups back if needed (you will need to take a computer and the usb flasher with you on the ride)

2)
1)Read the wiki many times, also for the software i had to use win10 64 bits and make sure you put the software on the paths they should be or it wont work.

2) Temperature sensor its a little hard to install if like me you are not so good soldering, it helps alot if you have a controller with the 8 wires (no need to solder on controller ) and have a good iron and work station (i didnt have )

you dont have alot of time before that big ride and you are newbie on stuff like this i guess you could also in the beggining just use the same firmware version i am using to setup all things needed and then afterwards go for caisinho firmware (its more difficult bcs you need also to make a cable and flash the display)

Thank you very much vass for your quick reply, very kind of you! I'm a Mac user but still have a very old laptop with windows XP and was planning to use that one. Is there no way I could use it?
So, to roll back I would need to flash the motor controller again with the backup I saved. I assume it's a failsafe procedure, right?
I don't have a problem tinkering and soldering, and I have watched jbalatube video on installing the temperature sensor, so it seems doable to me (fingers crossed!)

[/quote]
[/quote]
If you dont have alot of time before that big ride and you are newbie on stuff like this i guess you could also in the beggining just use the same firmware version i am using to setup all things needed and then afterwards go for caisinho firmware (its more difficult bcs you need also to make a cable and flash the display)
[/quote]
[/quote]

Not sure I get this one, is there a way to use my vlcd6 with the new firmware?

Thanks again,
[/quote]


There is a way to use a firmware (based on casainho codes, but with fewer options) that uses the old lcds so you only need to flash the controller.
Some people like the simplicity, for me its a nice stop gap to learn how to do all this stuff and ride a bit, then go for the advanced stuff like the 860C firmware on in my case probably the bluetooth and smartphone stuff.


https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=98281

https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1/wiki

PS - dont forget to do the heat pad mods , it changes the way the engine cools off by alot.
PS2 - I could make my old xp pc work, but i have 32bits windows on it, and cygwin wanted 64 and that was a mess (i just used my gaming rig), but you can install w10 on it easly and then take it on road (you can also probably use the mac because you can use linux to flash)

 

[danj]

My first question is:
Is there a simple way to roll back to the factory firmware and as such use my VLCD6 in case I have trouble during my tour?

Secondly, and this is maybe a wider question:
Are there any absolute DO's and DO NOT's for this installation setup? I'm sure that browsing through the whole forum will answer the question, but I was hoping for a top 2-3 key things.

Thank you very much for your time!

I have been testing several TSDZ2 motors over the last year and have flashed then all back to stock multiple times without any issues.

The first thing I do when i get a new or 2nd hand motor is to take a copy of the stock firmware they come with just so i know i can put them back to exactly how they were shipped to me. I recently was given a motor to fix that was branded as 'Satori bikes EASY electronic assist system' its clearly a TSDZ2 bu tthe firmware on it was not the same as the stock images
I think its a very early example but Its good to 'backup' your own so you are 100% sure you can put it back to how it came if you ever need to. Just use the 'st visual programmer' software to do this for each of the tabs ( Program,Data,options) save each into its own file.

I have also played around with the fork of the opensource software that works with the existing screen, so have jumped between stok, that fork and the current 1.0.0 release here. Infact I find its often good to go back to stock between forks and mojor releases, As thats what they are expecting you to upgrade from.

I wrote some of my experience up on my blog here. https://empoweredpeople.co.uk/2020/05/28/tongsheng-tsdz2-what-firmware-options-are-there/ may be of interest?

As far as Do's and Dont's. I'm sure others will step in here with other examples but for me.

no1 is try to keep the motor dry!. ok may just be my experience of 2nd hand motors that i have been given to 'fix' but they do not cope with anything other than rain. deep water and powerwashing is very much a DONT!.

This is a recent motor I was given to fix, I opened up and you can see is had a tide line from being '"washed" after each ride.

tsdz2-water1.JPG
tsdz2-water2.JPG

So if you are adding the temperature sensor you will need to open the motor housing, That in itself is easy to reseal as it has a 'O' ring and a little grease will help there. but if you decide to ull out the driver ( to get access to the cables ) you will likly have to damage the silicon sealent around the main cables. This can be resealed with silicon again, but it can be tricky to get the cables to sit as flat as they were. so take your time and get it sealed well when your happy its working.

Adding the temp sensor is a very good idea, I would also try to check its reading what you expect using a second thermometer, the first batch of LM35 sensors i got were chineese clones and were not reading correct at all!.

i hope that helps.

Thank you perryscope, I just saw your post now, great stuff, highly appreciated!

 

[Alphonse]

A few of us have reported the “overrun” issue here. By this, I mean the motor continues to add assist for a period after we stop pedaling causing harsh shifting, etc.

I experienced this and therefore dug into the Assist settings. As a result, I offer the following:

With "Torque" chosen under Motor settings, motor power/torque is delivered by controlling motor current based on this relationship: motor current (amps) = human power (watts) x assist level factor

The Assist Level configuration in the settings uses up to 20 “assist levels” with their respective “assist level factors”. The TSDZ2’s torque sensing control system derives a motor current needed for assist based on the relationship above and the assist level chosen. The settings for the 20 assist levels and their respective “assist level factors” are as shown in the attached spreadsheet. I believe these settings are the defaults within OSF V1.0.0 but haven’t been able to confirm that.

With these 20 “assist levels” and their corresponding “assist level factors”, I believe you will be trying to operate outside the capability of the motor and controller at the higher levels. You will see huge current demands being called for in the higher assist levels as indicated by the red zone of my attached chart. My postulation is these large demands are causing the overrun that I experienced.

After seeing the attached, I immediately changed my “assist level” setting to 10 vs. the 20. I simply kept the “assist level factors” the same and my trike is now well behaved. I get the pedal assistance that I was looking for and my initial testing in 92F ambient conditions have shown that the motor will not overheat into the danger zone. (I have a temperature sensor installed.) These settings keep the current demand generally below my target of 16 amps maximum. BTW, my system is a 48v motor, 860C display, and 52v battery.

The human power shown in the attached is because my setup is on a recumbent trike and is perhaps a bit higher that you’d worry about on a DF bike but that shouldn’t confuse anything. As you know, one of the great features of the torque sensing control of the TSDZ2 is that Human Power can be monitored.

 

[Swannking]

I noticed the same with 2 motors I installed on the recumbent trikes. I thought it was by design. But I do like the original firmware when I stopped pedaling, the motor stopped immediately.

I am using default 20 level of assists. I usually run it between 10-16. My trike is heavy. Torque mode vs power mode doesn't make any difference with this issue. I get less assist with the power mode so I usually set it higer up to 16.

 

[Swannking]

A few of us have reported the “overrun” issue here. By this, I mean the motor continues to add assist for a period after we stop pedaling causing harsh shifting, etc.

I experienced this and therefore dug into the Assist settings. As a result, I offer the following:

With "Torque" chosen under Motor settings, motor power/torque is delivered by controlling motor current based on this relationship: motor current (amps) = human power (watts) x assist level factor

The Assist Level configuration in the settings uses up to 20 “assist levels” with their respective “assist level factors”. The TSDZ2’s torque sensing control system derives a motor current needed for assist based on the relationship above and the assist level chosen. The settings for the 20 assist levels and their respective “assist level factors” are as shown in the attached spreadsheet. I believe these settings are the defaults within OSF V1.0.0 but haven’t been able to confirm that.

With these 20 “assist levels” and their corresponding “assist level factors”, I believe you will be trying to operate outside the capability of the motor and controller at the higher levels. You will see huge current demands being called for in the higher assist levels as indicated by the red zone of my attached chart. My postulation is these large demands are causing the overrun that I experienced.

After seeing the attached, I immediately changed my “assist level” setting to 10 vs. the 20. I simply kept the “assist level factors” the same and my trike is now well behaved. I get the pedal assistance that I was looking for and my initial testing in 92F ambient conditions have shown that the motor will not overheat into the danger zone. (I have a temperature sensor installed.) These settings keep the current demand generally below my target of 16 amps maximum. BTW, my system is a 48v motor, 860C display, and 52v battery.

The human power shown in the attached is because my setup is on a recumbent trike and is perhaps a bit higher that you’d worry about on a DF bike but that shouldn’t confuse anything. As you know, one of the great features of the torque sensing control of the TSDZ2 is that Human Power can be monitored.

assist level table - human power vs. current demanded.JPG

I am not sure if the over run is due to high current. I limit my Max current to 10 amp and still gets the over run, even when I am drawing 5 amp for that matter. I have to say that my human power hardly gets over 150.

Your motor current vs human power chart doesn't seem to correlate with my current draw at different assist level. I'll check to confirm with my next ride.

 

[casainho]

With "Torque" chosen under Motor settings, motor power/torque is delivered by controlling motor current based on this relationship: motor current (amps) = human power (watts) x assist level factor

assist level table - human power vs. current demanded.JPG

Nice table! Yes, very high assist level factor may be useful when we are very tired and want something more like a motorcycle, where a very light pedal pressure and rotation will make the motor use the max power possible. Note that this is not available on the original firmware, all this is experimental, some issues may happen on this high assist level factors, like oscillation / unstable motor power.

 

[Alphonse]

A few of us have reported the “overrun” issue here. By this, I mean the motor continues to add assist for a period after we stop pedaling causing harsh shifting, etc.

I experienced this and therefore dug into the Assist settings. As a result, I offer the following:

With "Torque" chosen under Motor settings, motor power/torque is delivered by controlling motor current based on this relationship: motor current (amps) = human power (watts) x assist level factor

The Assist Level configuration in the settings uses up to 20 “assist levels” with their respective “assist level factors”. The TSDZ2’s torque sensing control system derives a motor current needed for assist based on the relationship above and the assist level chosen. The settings for the 20 assist levels and their respective “assist level factors” are as shown in the attached spreadsheet. I believe these settings are the defaults within OSF V1.0.0 but haven’t been able to confirm that.

With these 20 “assist levels” and their corresponding “assist level factors”, I believe you will be trying to operate outside the capability of the motor and controller at the higher levels. You will see huge current demands being called for in the higher assist levels as indicated by the red zone of my attached chart. My postulation is these large demands are causing the overrun that I experienced.

After seeing the attached, I immediately changed my “assist level” setting to 10 vs. the 20. I simply kept the “assist level factors” the same and my trike is now well behaved. I get the pedal assistance that I was looking for and my initial testing in 92F ambient conditions have shown that the motor will not overheat into the danger zone. (I have a temperature sensor installed.) These settings keep the current demand generally below my target of 16 amps maximum. BTW, my system is a 48v motor, 860C display, and 52v battery.

The human power shown in the attached is because my setup is on a recumbent trike and is perhaps a bit higher that you’d worry about on a DF bike but that shouldn’t confuse anything. As you know, one of the great features of the torque sensing control of the TSDZ2 is that Human Power can be monitored.

assist level table - human power vs. current demanded.JPG

I am not sure if the over run is due to high current. I limit my Max current to 10 amp and still gets the over run, even when I am drawing 5 amp for that matter. I have to say that my human power hardly gets over 150.

Your motor current vs human power chart doesn't seem to correlate with my current draw at different assist level. I'll check to confirm with my next ride.

Please take another look at the relationship that drives the chart. It is motor current (amps) = human power (watts) x assist level factor. That is the control scheme and it is independent of the current limit you choose in the setup. Your 10 amps max current just moves the red zone up and to the left.

In other words if you put in 150 watts human power while at an Assist Level of 13 and an Assist Level Factor of 0.204, that means 150 watts human power x 0.204 = 30.6 amps. Obviously the system will not be able to do it but it still dives deep into that table. Go higher in the Assist Levels and the problem grows much worse. At an Assist Level 20 and 150 watts human power, it would be asking for 225 amps!

I would suggest you also confirm your Assist Level Factors are the same as in the table.
EDIT: I have attached the table for showing the red zone for your 150 watt human power and 10 amp max. current example.
EDIT: corrected some references to watts and amps that were incorrect.

 

[Alphonse]

With "Torque" chosen under Motor settings, motor power/torque is delivered by controlling motor current based on this relationship: motor current (amps) = human power (watts) x assist level factor

assist level table - human power vs. current demanded.JPG

Nice table! Yes, very high assist level factor may be useful when we are very tired and want something more like a motorcycle, where a very light pedal pressure and rotation will make the motor use the max power possible. Note that this is not available on the original firmware, all this is experimental, some issues may happen on this high assist level factors, like oscillation / unstable motor power.

Thanks. I like spreadsheets! They give me great visuals.

I think the default Assist Level Factors are set a bit too high but so what? We can change them. That is the beauty of this system.

I am thinking the deep dive into the table can cause the controller lots of issues and I felt them when I tested my system out. Once I looked at the table, the issue became quite visual and with data. It is simple to back the levels down to 9 or 10 and the behaviors improve. Meanwhile it is all adjustable and if you want only 5 levels of assist, change the default value to 5 levels and the respective Assist Level Factors to keep you within a 16 or 18 amp "green" zone. The key is to remember that the basis of the torque based control system here is "motor current (amps) = human power (watts) x assist level factor", as pointed out in your WIKI.

Casainho, thanks to you for all the work you've done on this firmware.

 

[Swannking]

Something does not add up here. May be I calibrated my torque sensor incorrectly. I use the imperial instead of metric. So my inputs to the calibration are in lbs. I confirmed that my assist factors are at default. When I have the assist at 10 and my human power at 50 watts, the motor draws about 1 amp of current. Tested with higher assist level. No where close to the number you have on the table. Can someone give us some current numbers in real time in relation to human power?

 

[Alphonse]

Something does not add up here. May be I calibrated my torque sensor incorrectly. I use the imperial instead of metric. So my inputs to the calibration are in lbs. I confirmed that my assist factors are at default. When I have the assist at 10 and my human power at 50 watts, the motor draws about 1 amp of current. Tested with higher assist level. No where close to the number you have on the table. Can someone give us some current numbers in real time in relation to human power?

Are you using your system on a recumbent or DF bike?

Can you share your left and right weight vs. ADC value curves that you came up with for your Torque Sensor Calibration work?

When you are on assist level 10 and a Human Power of 50 watts, what corresponding Motor Power are you seeing?

On level 10 Assist what is the Assist Level Factor you are using?

 

[Mr.Flibble]

A few of us have reported the “overrun” issue here. By this, I mean the motor continues to add assist for a period after we stop pedaling causing harsh shifting, etc.

I experienced this and therefore dug into the Assist settings. As a result, I offer the following:

With "Torque" chosen under Motor settings, motor power/torque is delivered by controlling motor current based on this relationship: motor current (amps) = human power (watts) x assist level factor

The Assist Level configuration in the settings uses up to 20 “assist levels” with their respective “assist level factors”. The TSDZ2’s torque sensing control system derives a motor current needed for assist based on the relationship above and the assist level chosen. The settings for the 20 assist levels and their respective “assist level factors” are as shown in the attached spreadsheet. I believe these settings are the defaults within OSF V1.0.0 but haven’t been able to confirm that.

With these 20 “assist levels” and their corresponding “assist level factors”, I believe you will be trying to operate outside the capability of the motor and controller at the higher levels. You will see huge current demands being called for in the higher assist levels as indicated by the red zone of my attached chart. My postulation is these large demands are causing the overrun that I experienced.

After seeing the attached, I immediately changed my “assist level” setting to 10 vs. the 20. I simply kept the “assist level factors” the same and my trike is now well behaved. I get the pedal assistance that I was looking for and my initial testing in 92F ambient conditions have shown that the motor will not overheat into the danger zone. (I have a temperature sensor installed.) These settings keep the current demand generally below my target of 16 amps maximum. BTW, my system is a 48v motor, 860C display, and 52v battery.

I Don't go over 10 for any length of time, and get the over run in 8 when pedaling at high cadence.
I think the power levels are a red herring - higher power just makes it easier to hit high cadence.

 

[Axl Rose]

I guess your screen will be wired directly like the 6 pin plug on the right? and that pinout will help you work out the tx/rx GND and bat+ pins you need to program it.

Thanks for the pinout. Yes, my display is wired directly with the 6 pin plug.
But now as I know the pinout, I will do it similar to the speed sensor flash and connect it directly.
Will keep you updated.

Just to let you know: The flash worked with connecting the pins directly.

Just to more questions:
1.
I flashed the motor with firmware TSDZ2-v1.0.0-beta.1.
There is no .hex file available for version TSDZ2-v1.0.0.
Is the version TSDZ2-v1.0.0-beta.1 the latest Firmware for the motor?
2. The motor doesn´t fit into the frame. I can push it approximately half way into the frame.
Then it stucks. Any hint how to get it through the frame?

Thanks in advance.

 

[perryscope]

I guess your screen will be wired directly like the 6 pin plug on the right? and that pinout will help you work out the tx/rx GND and bat+ pins you need to program it.

Thanks for the pinout. Yes, my display is wired directly with the 6 pin plug.
But now as I know the pinout, I will do it similar to the speed sensor flash and connect it directly.
Will keep you updated.

Just to let you know: The flash worked with connecting the pins directly.

Just to more questions:
1.
I flashed the motor with firmware TSDZ2-v1.0.0-beta.1.
There is no .hex file available for version TSDZ2-v1.0.0.
Is the version TSDZ2-v1.0.0-beta.1 the latest Firmware for the motor?
2. The motor doesn´t fit into the frame. I can push it approximately half way into the frame.
Then it stucks. Any hint how to get it through the frame?

Thanks in advance.

1) The latest firmware version 1.0.0 release is here https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/Color_LCD/releases
2) If you mean the motor will not go through your bike frame (where the bottom bracket would go) I have seen this myself on some alloy mountain bike frames that have large weld ingress into the bottom bracket space. If thats a case you can carefully use a file to file the middle section back but be careful not to damage the threads ( asuming you may want to put a standard bottom bracket back in the future)

 

[Alphonse]

A few of us have reported the “overrun” issue here. By this, I mean the motor continues to add assist for a period after we stop pedaling causing harsh shifting, etc.

I experienced this and therefore dug into the Assist settings. As a result, I offer the following:

With "Torque" chosen under Motor settings, motor power/torque is delivered by controlling motor current based on this relationship: motor current (amps) = human power (watts) x assist level factor

The Assist Level configuration in the settings uses up to 20 “assist levels” with their respective “assist level factors”. . . . . . . . . .

I Don't go over 10 for any length of time, and get the over run in 8 when pedaling at high cadence.
I think the power levels are a red herring - higher power just makes it easier to hit high cadence.

Do have Torque or Power selected in your settings? What actual Assist Level Value does your configuration use for level 8 for example.

BTW, not sure what you mean by Red Herring. This is a primary control relationship of the torque sensing system that we bought. There's a lot gathered up around it that needs to be tuned along with it.

 

[Mr.Flibble]

A few of us have reported the “overrun” issue here. By this, I mean the motor continues to add assist for a period after we stop pedaling causing harsh shifting, etc.

I experienced this and therefore dug into the Assist settings. As a result, I offer the following:

With "Torque" chosen under Motor settings, motor power/torque is delivered by controlling motor current based on this relationship: motor current (amps) = human power (watts) x assist level factor

The Assist Level configuration in the settings uses up to 20 “assist levels” with their respective “assist level factors”. . . . . . . . . .

I Don't go over 10 for any length of time, and get the over run in 8 when pedaling at high cadence.
I think the power levels are a red herring - higher power just makes it easier to hit high cadence.

Do have Torque or Power selected in your settings? What actual Assist Level Value does your configuration use for level 8 for example.

BTW, not sure what you mean by Red Herring. This is a primary control relationship of the torque sensing system that we bought. There's a lot gathered up around it that needs to be tuned along with it.

Torque, and whatever it comes with, "out the box".

I did a little bit more testing today, and it didn't happen a 6 and below. It happened more, the higher power I used with high cadence. It doesn't happen every time.

I was "ghost" peddling down hill, and the motor was still going. That doesn't seem right to me, it's like it's just cadence sensing.

 

[Alphonse]

A few of us have reported the “overrun” issue here. By this, I mean the motor continues to add assist for a period after we stop pedaling causing harsh shifting, etc.

I experienced this and therefore dug into the Assist settings. As a result, I offer the following:

With "Torque" chosen under Motor settings, motor power/torque is delivered by controlling motor current based on this relationship: motor current (amps) = human power (watts) x assist level factor

The Assist Level configuration in the settings uses up to 20 “assist levels” with their respective “assist level factors”. . . . . . . . . .

I Don't go over 10 for any length of time, and get the over run in 8 when pedaling at high cadence.
I think the power levels are a red herring - higher power just makes it easier to hit high cadence.

Do have Torque or Power selected in your settings? What actual Assist Level Value does your configuration use for level 8 for example.

BTW, not sure what you mean by Red Herring. This is a primary control relationship of the torque sensing system that we bought. There's a lot gathered up around it that needs to be tuned along with it.

Torque, and whatever it comes with, "out the box".

I did a little bit more testing today, and it didn't happen a 6 and below. It happened more, the higher power I used with high cadence. It doesn't happen every time.

I was "ghost" peddling down hill, and the motor was still going. That doesn't seem right to me, it's like it's just cadence sensing.

I would really encourage you look to see what your settings are. People are not able to help you without specifics. No one knows what it is out of the box except the folks that sold it to you and you, if you go into the settings and look. Such is the world of OSF and the TSDZ2.

If you haven't yet learned how to look, study the WIKI here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/Features-and-configurations-on-display.

 

[Mr.Flibble]

I would really encourage you look to see what your settings are. People are not able to help you without specifics. No one knows what it is out of the box except the folks that sold it to you and you, if you go into the settings and look. Such is the world of OSF and the TSDZ2.
[/quote]

It's what whoever wrote it, decided default was.

I'm pretty sure the Aliexpress vendor doesn't know what the settings for the third party software, I flashed onto it are.

Surely the default settings should work reasonably ok?

 

[HughF]

It's what whoever wrote it, decided default was.

I'm pretty sure the Aliexpress vendor doesn't know what the settings for the third party software, I flashed onto it are.

Surely the default settings should work reasonably ok?

Casainho wrote the defaults.... And Imho they aren't the best defaults for delivering a good user experience out of the box.

Calibrate your torque sensor, then look again at your overrun issue.

Ghost peddling will result in the motor working on this firmware version. For me, it only does it on assist 18-20... But it is a fun bug/feature.

If you switch to power mode from the default torque mode, ghost peddling will go away.