Up grading to a new trike

The front fork is a "Spinner 300". I have tried researching this fork (still trying). The manufacture website does not detail much on the makeup of the shock. I have emailed them asking questions, but still have not received any response.

I took a poke around the web for the name and model, and what I see in images there look (externally) in general just like the cheaper RST and Suntour forks (they're probably made the same way in the same place, wherever that is), and those are made more or less as essentially "pogo sticks" with little or no damping, usually just springs in each leg with (usually) elastomer blocks at the bottoms for "stops", and have plastic bushings between the lowers and tubes to slide on in just one place (where the lowers tube expands a bit at the top, just below the brake arch)--that's why they "rock" back and forth during hubmotor operation and can bind and not operate as suspension very well under motor torque. But some of the links go to air-suspension forks, and those can be pretty decent if designed right.

While I've never seen a fork for a wheel as small as those on these trikes that isn't of the pogostick design, it's not impossible that these are better than that. (I would hope so for the price) Does the manual for the trike itself cover suspension adjustments? (if it's not adjustable suspension, it is likely of the pogo stick variety, the adjustable ones are often air or air/oil or all oil).


My first suspension fork ever was a very cheap RST something that came on a cheap commuter bicycle a couple of decades ago, and at the time I thought it was far better than not having one, but have since found other ways that work out better. I used a Suntour SR low-end fork on CrazyBike2 (LWB semirecumbent cargo bike) for a while, and it was better than not having a suspension, but not by much. I used a slightly better Suntour XCV with more travel on it after that, and then later on SB Cruiser, until the crown sheared thru in a very very low speed impact (walking speed).

I also had a Manitou Skareb air/oil fork on a regular FS bike (diamondback?), and it was pretty good even with heavy cargo on the front basket / rack that even though it was so well-used when I got it that it had to be aired up every ride...but the dropouts were fragile, and couldn't take the torque of a hubmotor even just sitting upside down slightly engaging the motor, no load. (no torque arms or anything else, so not unexpected, but undesirable). If I were to use it again I'd just remove the dropouts entirely and make a steel tube with thick clamping dropouts built in, and clamp/glue that tube over the fork lowers on each side.


These days on SB Cruiser I am running with zero suspension other than the air in the tires, using a doublecrown fork built from some regular fork clamp crowns and steerer, and a couple of sizes of tubing cut from good cromoly bicycle frames overlapped and clamped into those, with the lowers off some crappy fork slipped over those and tack-welded in place with shims to keep it from moving around. Has worked for a few years now, and I don't really miss the XCV fork suspension, on the ~11-foot-long SB Cruiser heavy-cargo trike. Could still use rear suspension though, for me and the cargo. ;) Note that SB Cruiser is custom built mostly because no one makes what I need, but also because it would cost a fortune to buy one if they did.
https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/attachments/20231210_153702-jpg.344151/

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I’ve no experience with these vehicles, or any real theoretical understanding of them, but have been pondering suspension options for an adult trailer, which has some similarities, and am leaning toward suspending the seat.
 
I used to see a fair few “Spinner” forks, probably around mid 2000s. I pulled a few off bikes, but don’t recall pulling one apart. They were very heavy. The last one I saw was five or ten years ago.

Edit: I was trying to think of the bike of my own that had one … it was a Trek, so the fork manufacturer convinced at least one major bike company that their product was acceptable.
 
amberwolf, thank you.

In the PaPaSteve post above, he posted a link to a manual. I haven't been able to fully understand it yet, but it sounds like it is "air", talks about air settings, has "lockout" and "release" as well as adjustments for rebound. I am hoping that it is more quality than junk because Hase is using it for all their front fork suspension.

I know back around 2010, most forks with shocks I saw were not quality, especially for smaller dia wheels.

Thanks again all, Tom
 
On the website that linked manual comes from, there are two "300" forks that are 20" / 24", one is air (presumably adjustable) and the other is coil (spring, no adjustments). Does the trike say which one it comes with?

Both are "alloy" lowers, but what that alloy is is not specified. You will definitely want torque arms (preferably one each side of the axle, I'd recommend the latest Grin Tech torque arms from ebikes.ca (not the clones sold elsewhere).

They both have options that may or may not come on the trike's version, but none of them affect how well it will or won't work with your needs.

Neither one has specs that say how it's built inside (how the bushings are setup), but I'd guess it's more likley the air version would have better bushings than the coil (bushings at top and bottom are the main thing regarding binding due to hubmotor or disc-braking torque that "twists" the fork radially around the axle, back and forth--if it only has bushings at the top like most of the coil forks I've had apart it is more able to twist enough to bind--both kinds could still bind depending on the materials and design and the torque applied).

If it doesn't matter whether the suspension binds during acceleration or braking, as long as it works normally the rest of the time, then it doesn't matter which kind this fork is.


300 AIR 24” / 300 AIR 20”​

Wheel Size24" / 20"Stanchion(mm)30mm (AL7050)
Travel(mm)80 /100mm ( 24" ) / 80mm( 20" )LowerAlloy , Disc only (PM)
Stem1 1/8" AL7050SpringAir
CrownCold Forging AL6061Weight(g)± 3%1835g / 1775g
OptionRemote system Alloy Steerer
1 1/8" to 1.5" Tapered Steerer

300 24” / 300 20”​

Wheel Size24" / 20"Stanchion(mm)30mm Steel (TI color / CP / ED )
Travel(mm)80 /100mm ( 24" ) / 80mm( 20" )LowerAlloy, Disc only (PM)
Stem1 1/8" SteelSpringCoil
CrownCold Forging AL6061Weight(g)± 3%2850g / 2520g
OptionLC (Lockout Cartridge System)
Remote system Alloy Steerer
1 1/8" to 1.5" Tapered Steerer
 
Big Tom
I completely understand what your saying . . .
However
When applying a Cyclone to the rear axle it can be done as two separate systems.
If the pedal system breaks the motor can get ya home and visa versa.
That's how this tandem trike was done some 10 or so years ago.
It took custom fabrication so is not an option for all uses.
Trike was originally built in 1977.
Rebuilt and upgraded several times.
Early 90's it was briefly fitted with a motor on the forks which, for this application did not work well.
Our son still uses it.

View attachment 344182

View attachment 344183
Everybody is having fun!
 
I took a poke around the web for the name and model, and what I see in images there look (externally) in general just like the cheaper RST and Suntour forks (they're probably made the same way in the same place, wherever that is), and those are made more or less as essentially "pogo sticks" with little or no damping, usually just springs in each leg with (usually) elastomer blocks at the bottoms for "stops", and have plastic bushings between the lowers and tubes to slide on in just one place (where the lowers tube expands a bit at the top, just below the brake arch)--that's why they "rock" back and forth during hubmotor operation and can bind and not operate as suspension very well under motor torque. But some of the links go to air-suspension forks, and those can be pretty decent if designed right.

While I've never seen a fork for a wheel as small as those on these trikes that isn't of the pogostick design, it's not impossible that these are better than that. (I would hope so for the price) Does the manual for the trike itself cover suspension adjustments? (if it's not adjustable suspension, it is likely of the pogo stick variety, the adjustable ones are often air or air/oil or all oil).


My first suspension fork ever was a very cheap RST something that came on a cheap commuter bicycle a couple of decades ago, and at the time I thought it was far better than not having one, but have since found other ways that work out better. I used a Suntour SR low-end fork on CrazyBike2 (LWB semirecumbent cargo bike) for a while, and it was better than not having a suspension, but not by much. I used a slightly better Suntour XCV with more travel on it after that, and then later on SB Cruiser, until the crown sheared thru in a very very low speed impact (walking speed).

I also had a Manitou Skareb air/oil fork on a regular FS bike (diamondback?), and it was pretty good even with heavy cargo on the front basket / rack that even though it was so well-used when I got it that it had to be aired up every ride...but the dropouts were fragile, and couldn't take the torque of a hubmotor even just sitting upside down slightly engaging the motor, no load. (no torque arms or anything else, so not unexpected, but undesirable). If I were to use it again I'd just remove the dropouts entirely and make a steel tube with thick clamping dropouts built in, and clamp/glue that tube over the fork lowers on each side.


These days on SB Cruiser I am running with zero suspension other than the air in the tires, using a doublecrown fork built from some regular fork clamp crowns and steerer, and a couple of sizes of tubing cut from good cromoly bicycle frames overlapped and clamped into those, with the lowers off some crappy fork slipped over those and tack-welded in place with shims to keep it from moving around. Has worked for a few years now, and I don't really miss the XCV fork suspension, on the ~11-foot-long SB Cruiser heavy-cargo trike. Could still use rear suspension though, for me and the cargo. ;) Note that SB Cruiser is custom built mostly because no one makes what I need, but also because it would cost a fortune to buy one if they did.
https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/attachments/20231210_153702-jpg.344151/

View attachment 344223


View attachment 344222
Bike is looking pretty good these days.

I bet you are a legion in Phoenix.
 
amberwolf, thanks again. I can't find anything on the Hase website where it states "exactly " the fork in question. Probably so they can switch if supply gets limited. The configuration (setting up order) part of the site says shock can be configured for the riders weight and has 40mm travel (?).

I guess I will have to travel to get a first hand inspection and knowledge.

Thanks, Tom
 
I guess I will have to travel to get a first hand inspection and knowledge.
The people you are traveling to see - is it worth a phone call (or email) to find out if they can get more information?
 
The people you are traveling to see - is it worth a phone call (or email) to find out if they can get more information?
If I go there (dealer with one similar trike) it will be for more information than just the front forks. It is a Kettweisel, not the Lepus but I will be able to check out the rear shocks and how a low seating position actually feels, the Lepus has a higher seat. I have chatted with the store earlier but as most dealers, they only offer basics (brochure still info). Still there are sometimes only personal viewing can achieve.

Tom
 
I was saying a hub motor because ..... as I said above "I DO NOT WANT a motor connected into my drive chain".

It's a separate chain. Completely independent. Pay attention.

Then I saw why you were pushing your suggestions, you are selling that model of motor

It's not my sale; it's not my business. I just helped to design it (the retrofit, not the motor) and install lots of them. Also if you were paying attention, "out of stock" so you can't buy one anyway. As I already said, I doubt you can use this product on your trike. It's only an example of what I'm talking about-- driving the rear axle with a chain that isn't related to the pedal drive.

If you're too dense to understand it, you're not clever enough to implement such a system. So in that case, don't trouble yourself about it.
 
It's a separate chain. Completely independent. Pay attention.



It's not my sale; it's not my business. I just helped to design it (the retrofit, not the motor) and install lots of them. Also if you were paying attention, "out of stock" so you can't buy one anyway. As I already said, I doubt you can use this product on your trike. It's only an example of what I'm talking about-- driving the rear axle with a chain that isn't related to the pedal drive.

If you're too dense to understand it, you're not clever enough to implement such a system. So in that case, don't trouble yourself about it.
LOOK .... I have tried to treat you with respect, I have NEVER disrespected you by calling you names. I have even thanked you for your suggestions and opinions Even though they were TOTALLY opposite of what I was asking about.

You tell me to pay attention, .... well .... the title of this thread is ..... Up grading to a new trike .... but you kept suggesting to refurbishing the trike i have. Even after I said "I do not want a custom trike" .... you pushed your suggestion .... you disputed me after I said "it would take major alterations to do what you suggest" without actually knowing because you lattr agreed that your suggestion would not work for me.

Well .... this thread was about "Up grading to a new trike" and if an e-assist motor would or could damage a fork with suspension, not whatever you thought it should be about. And yet you tell me to pay attention.

Sorry to everyone else for this rant, but I detest disrespect and name calling, it only hurts this and other good sites.

Tom
 
You tell me to pay attention, .... well .... the title of this thread is ..... Up grading to a new trike .... but you kept suggesting to refurbishing the trike i have. Even after I said "I do not want a custom trike" .... you pushed your suggestion .... you disputed me after I said "it would take major alterations to do what you suggest" without actually knowing because you lattr agreed that your suggestion would not work for me.

Everything I've told you applies equally to your old recumbent delta trike and also to any other recumbent delta trike. Every time I clarified, you said something that made clear you didn't fully understand what I was suggesting. It doesn't matter to me what solution you come up with for yourself; I wanted you to understand that a front hub isn't the only option that meets all your criteria.

Compared to a hub, you would get better vehicle dynamics with a rear axle drive, but at the cost of a more complicated and vehicle-specific installation. There's not a wrong choice between the two; one would be easier to implement and the other would be easier to ride.
 
ES is probably the best DIY site for getting problem solving suggestions to your posted "upgrading" thread. The downside of any DIY suggestion is that it's more involved and possibly counter than is a KIS upgrading solution.

DIY is like the middle name of many knowledgeable experienced ES members when it comes right down to a suitable "upgrading" solution.
 
You still do not LISTEN .... I am NOT working or reworking my 13 year old tired trike. As the title says "Up grading to a new trike". With my old trike (which I am not refurbishing) or a new trike ..... THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY TO ADD A MOTOR WITHOUT MAJOR MODIFICATIONS

Still either not listening or not comprehending. Sorry to bother you, I'm done here. Good luck with your project.
 
I got to physically see and use Hase trike today. The suspension fork on that trike was a Spinner 300 and I believe it was the spring and not the air version. There was no "air" valves on the shock.

Another factor I found out was that Hase also sells a front hub motor (36v, 250w) and they allow a customer to configure a suspension fork with the hub motor. Normally the configure will not allow to pair things Hase does not want together. So I think Hase believes the suspension fork will be OK.

Tom
 
For sure, they have to warrantee it.

It’d pay to get some spare fork seals from them in case they’re an oddball size that’s going to be difficult to source. If you coat them in silicone grease they’ll be good for years. Even longer if you keep them in the fridge.
 
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