Super sized stand-up Scooter project. Build thread

[Goped ESR750]

Hi.

Was wondering if you guys might be able to help me one selection of motor for new project. I am pretty much looking at either a me0909 or me708.

The project is to make a large go-ped style stand up electric scooter capable of around 60mph, hopefully incorperating a belt drive.

I have a doner scooter which I have purchase. It is a peugot speedfight 2.

The things I would like to retain from this is the front swing arm and down tube, and the wheels. The frame will either go or be adapted. I expecting this will be a hard tail, with front suspension. Discs all round. Scooter sized mechanics, with lightest frame possible and batteries under frame in a battery box.

Planning on using 48v setup. Lipo. I have worked with lipo before with great success. I am planning on using eith 8 or 12 6s1p 5ah turnigy lipo packs to get 20/30AH at 48v. set up with obviously be half parrellel half series to get voltage and amperage. Probably treat as two packs, will individual LVC circuit plus turnigy telemetry display for dash.

I pretty much want it too look like my Go-Ped esr 750 with scooter mechanics and far bigger motor. Here is a view pics below, I want it too look like its bigger brother.

This little scooter is capable of around 45mph, but I have it restricted to 30mph at the moment. It has four 6s 5ah lipos to get 48v 10ah, which as you can see from the display unfortunatly the first two cells seem to be starting to die, although last about 4 miles at WOT at restricted settings, at least thats when the first 2 cells get to 3.5 and my lv alarm goes off.... Is great fun though, but I want more. So a similiar sized set up to this, longer and obsviously slighter higher off the ground is what im thinking.

Is the motors I selected going to be too much for a stand up?

Great to hear what you guys think, thanks.

 

[Goped ESR750]

reserved

 

[heathyoung]

A hard tail scooter - ouch. Not my idea of a comfortable ride.

There is a user here who has converted an ICE scooter to an RC motor - probably a better idea, keeps the swingarm and CVT.

 

[Goped ESR750]

Well the reason for the hardtail is because when I adapt it to be a stand up scooter it would look stupid to have the frame stick up to take a scooter sized shock.

Im not planning on this being a huge machine. I want it too be a small as possible like diggler size maybe. The scooter is certainly not for comfort anyways, part of the nature of the stand-ups. Purely for fun.

Also since I live in the UK, I want to ensure that the scooter has no resemblance to a road going 50cc. It will be illegal anyways, but they might try charge for no insurance if it appears to be a scooter. I need it to be a completly unlicenced vehicle to ensure that if I do get stopped it won't affect my driving licence.

It's basically going to another toy like my goped. Used for short journeys. Less than a 10mile range, but capable of 60mph.

I just really need advice on motor. I see agni's, etek, lemco and mars a possibilities. All at different prices. Im thinking 6kw cont and 12kw peak.

Anyone got any input on powerful motors, also wether I need as much power as I think I do. Thanks

 

[Drunkskunk]

Go Etek!

there is someone you need to track down for this, but he's not on this forum anymore. He goes by deafscooter, and he builds insain standup scooters. I think I last saw him post on V for Voltage forums.

 

[Goped ESR750]

Thanks. You got any links to some of his works?

 

[Goped ESR750]

Got donor bike today. Started strip down.

Really the only thing I can see being retained is the front down tube, and the front suspension. Also the wheels and brakes, the rest will go.

 

[John in CR]

For the space savings what you really need is a E-scooter hubmotor with a built in 10" rim. One of the guys picked one up in the UK recently for $125, or was it Euros?, and even got the controller too. Add in a few leg kicks through the traffic cams and what are they going to do? They typically have a big drum brake, so you might even want to go foot pedal brake for the rear, but I've never ridden one of those standup scooters to know if that makes any sense. I always run mine to a hand brake, but it does require a moto brake handle and cable for the extra draw length and longer handle for more leverage.

Too bad you didn't post before buying the gasser scooter, since you probably could have picked up an electric one with everything you need for dirt cheap, from someone who simply killed the batteries or got a loose wire or something but didn't know how to fix it or find someone who'd touch it.

 

[John in CR]

BTW, can you do a couple of closeup pics of the lower front at straight and at full turn so I can see how the steering works on the big scooter? I'd like to do something similar for a no brake dive ride, but I've never seen that kind of steering and suspension up close to see the geometry.

 

[Goped ESR750]

Hey thanks for the reply.

I don't think the hub motor will really have the torque and speed which I have been looking for. Really look at Etek, Agni, or LEMCO possible a MARS motor. The frame is going to be cut off from the down tube, to retain the front bearings and steering assembly then a new frame made.

The scooter suspension is the reason I selected this Speedfight. I am not aware of any other scooter apart from the Italjet Dragster which is supported from one side with a swing. I can indeed take some close up photoes of the front suspension but that will have to be tommorow now as I won't get home from work untill 10.30pm tonight.

I do see some of the benifits in getting an old electric scooter, but I find things much more fun to start from scratch. I am hoping on using a belt instead of a chain, but nothing like the CVT on the scooter currently. Something more similiar to a harley belt drive is what I am after.

Actually visited a chopper custom shop 'Attitude Customs' today in regards to the frame to see what he had to say. I will probably do the work myself but would be interesting to get a quote from him, and from the choppers he has around the shop it looks as though he does really good work. Should of seen his face when I started explaining what I wanted lol.

Here is my build of my goped. You might like a look at. http://www.gopednation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315538

It is quite an extensive build thread, but should give you an idea of what I'm like with my builds. Like I mentioned before I want for this too look like my go-peds bigger brother, same orange and black colour coding etc. One thing that shouldn't be noted is that I'm not really intending on kicking the scooter to much, it is purely for motor use.

 

[John in CR]

I'm not talking about the 500W craptastic scooters, but those rated over 1kw and up. Don't let the performance of a 300lb pig of a scooter fool you, with all that weight the controllers have to be very tame for the motors not to have heat problems due to the big load expected of 500lbs or 600lb with a passenger. The main motors I use are rated at 1200W, but with only a 125lb bike I've run 10kw peaks without issue in a 20" diameter tire, and my bike will do 60mph with 250lb me aboard on 74V nominal, 20s. A similar hubbie in a 10" scooter rim will have about a 15" OD tire, so you'd need to go to higher voltage for your top speed. The greater torque due to the smaller tire, plus I'm sure you're not a heavyweight like me, so the lighter load, will enable controller settings that will flip you off the board no problem. Just to be on the safe side to ensure you get the craziness you're after in a durable package, I'd suggest the 96V400A Kelly. The beauty of the hubbie, especially for your build is the lack of space. You need a wheel anyway, and the hubmotor uses otherwise wasted space. It wouldn't hang with an Agni at max voltage, but it could be set up to hang with the others quite well, especially with such a short wheelbase and high CG.

No matter what route you go, it sounds like you'll have the baddest stand up e-scooter on the planet. I have no doubt that a good scooter hubbie could get you there, and I was just thinking the cool use you could make of the spacious board space possible going with a hubbie and no motor getting in the way.

The kicking comment was just for those traffic cams, to keep you out of trouble, not that they could actually catch you anyway.

Now you've gone and got me thinking about one.

John

PS- Don't worry about the extra pics. I took a closer look and can see that horizontal bent tube isn't attached to the wheel assembly, so the whole wheel and suspension just attaches to the bottom of the steering tube just below the head tube with a rigid strong piece curving around the back of the wheel to accept the front swingarm.

 

[Goped ESR750]

Thanks for the advice there... Definatly something to consider.

I have a hub motor on my Ultramotor a2b metro. From an engineering sense I find myself against hub motors, but have found the bike to be excellent, and I am sure with a better controller the motor would really kick from stand still, it has a light ramp up.

I would like this to be a 48v set-up though. The motor I partically liked is the original Etek, I think I have managed to source one in the uk. I have ordered it, and should be delivered soon, I am assured its a genuine Briggs and Stratton.

Is there any major benefits of using a higher voltage, or with correct gear ratio on motor does it not really affect much?

Is higher voltage more efficient?

thanks

 

[Grinhill]

Cool project.

I'm not sure if you've considered this, but will your deck height end up higher than a regular stand-up scooter? This may make it difficult to kick and to get started, also makes balancing at low speed a little harder due to higher centre of gravity.

I guess this would be difficult to change without major frame surgery.

 

[Goped ESR750]

Major frame surgery is too take place. Only the down tube, and front bearing assembly will remain... The frame is going to get dropped right down and expect it to be a hardtail on the rear. Will be a little higher than my go-ped hopefully, to allow for front suspension travel.

 

[Goped ESR750]

Made good progress stripping the bike the weekend. Seems the much of the frame will be wasted. I only really need the head stock and down tube. Was cheaper to buy whole bike though.

The bike has loose bearings on the bottom race, these will go. I am going to put tapered roller bearings on instead. The bottom race appear to be welded on and is a big lump, so i think I'm going to have to make a massive arbour and skim it parallel to take the new bearings. The locking system at the top should still work for the new bearing so wont have to do any machining that end.

My motor should arrive during the week, went for the Etek in the end. The rear wheel was cracked where the bolts mount it too the hub so I have been on ebay and got another one, I also got another front wheel hub and disc, as the rear hub is spliced for the drive shaft, and I want to use it with a belt drive so want it to run on bearings the same as the front, also I need new disc all round so getting the hub with the disc on ebay was handy as now I only need to replace one disc. Will need to get another shaft, but not sure yet whether I will support the wheel from one or both sides, so the axle can wait, I have the one of the front to play with anyways.

Here is a few pictures of my progress.

 

[Goped ESR750]

Done some more work on the chopped section of the frame.

Ground all the fittings off and shot blasted the paint off. Got to make bearing cups to fit the headstock, since I upgrading to taper roller bearings. The rest of the frame im getting custom made, its the only part of the project I will outsource, and only will be the bends in the basic frame, I may get him to make the rear axle up aswell.

Few pics of progress, and part compared like for like to the original.

 

[amberwolf]

Mmm....wish I had that pile of leftover parts. :lol:

Project looks interesting (but would probably be illegal to ride here in Phoenix/AZ).

 

[Goped ESR750]

Got the Etek motor through. Brand new and unused. Genuine Briggs and Stratton still got original box, ordered in 2004 never used. Seems genuine and was really cheap. Even cheaper than the T2 motor on my goped currently.

Took a few pics to compare the difference in size.

 

[def215]

wow. that sounds like a steal for less than a torkinator(if i recall they cost in the ballpark range of about 400-500 bucks). an etek on a giant standup scooter should be pretty interesting.

btw-i love the esr. i remember reading the build thread on the goped forum. :wink:

 

[Goped ESR750]

Thanks Def glad you like the ESR. Had alot of problems with the T2 on that build. Still not happy with the performance. Have restricted very heavily to protect motor best I can. Will never be sustainable.

This project I am hoping to cost less than the ESR project, the motor already cost less than the motor on the ESR. I paid £245 for the motor.

Currently stripped the brakes, no photos at the moment. The brakes are off to powder coat, getting them done black. Going to get new seals for them when I put them back together. Colour scheme is going to be same as ESR.

I will make the bearing cups as soon as the taper roller bearings I order arrive. I need to also machine the original loose bearing systems bottom race, so that is parallel to take a taper roller bearing.

Should be more pictures soon.

 

[Goped ESR750]

Completely stripped the front swing the weekend to prepare it for the tapered rollers. The bottom race of the loose bearings is part of a large block welded on and I am going to have to put the whole stem in the lathe to skim it parallel, will need a huge lathe, and have to make up a tool just to do it. That should not take long, the bearing cups will probably take longer.

Few problems with the front swing arm. Both bearings in the pivot and completely gone, did not actually have much of the needle rollers left, and some of the one I did I was able to snap it two in my hand. I can't get the bolt to come out of the swing arm. Going to try and press that out today. I think I am going to screw the washer up, but its very worn anyway by the look of it. It is supposed to run on the needle rollers but because on half of them where not in there seems to have worn down the washer instead.

I need to save the bolt though, I have been looking for replacement bearings. One of them is standard, but the needle roller is a very thin bearing something which I can't seem to source a replacement for. I think it must be a Peugeot specific part, they charge £53 for the replacement. I think I am going to have to bite the bullet on that one and replace it, the washer is only cheap. Bolt is £46 as well so if I can save that I would be happy.

The swing arm itself has got rust on the inside from a little hole at the base. I was thinking of drilling out and filling it back up with weld once I cleaned it, however I managed to source one that looks like its good condition on ebay for £5 so I gone for that instead. It is yet to arrive but it looks far better than what I got. If not, I am sure I can make good out the pair of them. Depends how well the bolt presses out of the arm though, could ruin it by doing that anyway.

Front suspension spring is little heavy for what I need I think. Seeing as I am loosing a lot of weight, looking to maybe replace with adjustable pit bike shock or something similar. The pitch is 265mm

Few pictures of where I am at.

 

[Goped ESR750]

Made bearings cups today. Did lovely little job. Pressed the races in, took it home. Was not until I tried offering the bearing to the race did I realise I made bit of an error. Not having used taper rollers before. I did not realise you need space behind the race for the bearing sit on the taper. I need to put the cups back in the lathe a cut a recess behind race. I am not sure if I really got enough material available though. I the wall thickness is about 5mm at the moment. I figure I could loose a few mm, but really by the look of it, I am thinking the bearing might need a full 5mm behind it. My races are press fitted into bearing cups, so going to try amend current cups. Might be the case of making a new set though. Should be great fun getting the races back out with damaging them too.

 

[Goped ESR750]

Been doing a little research on the bearings I bought. Managed to find the bearing diagram. I was trying to search how far the bearing protrudes from inner race, I was able to work this out for my bearing using the diagram.

http://cad.timken.com/image?cid=484...d-Roller-Bearings---TS--Tapered-Single--2.JPG

On my bearing:

B= 20.63
T= 19.05

So it sticks out 1.58 mm... This is good news. I will shave two mm of the back of the bearing race, leaving me with at least a 3mm wall on the back stepped to 5mm everywhere else, except the wall inside the frame, which is about 2mm. I don't even need to clock it in, will just take a over cut as it is a clearance hole. Handy as I was making good progress and I hate having to make things twice.

 

[Goped ESR750]

Reworked the bearing cups giving a 2mm recess behind the race. Bearings now fit perfectly. Am very happy with the cups. These will now be powder coated black. Few pictures below.

 

[etard]

Very nice! That should be stout as hell! I do know that the 80's Honda scooters had a similar suspension setup to that of your's, I'm sure the Puegot handles much better as the Hondas seemed so soft to me. I'll be interested to see how this turns out, 60mph on a stand up seems a bit extreme, and on a hardtail nonetheless! Ypu should look into the front suspension design of formula one cars, you may be able to have a lever rising up from the swingarm that pushes the shock parallel to the frame as the wheel arches upwards, could even hide the shock inside the belly housing. There is also the "pull" type shock that pulls the shock against a stationary plate as the swingarm moves upward.