Samsung INR18650-20R .. yes these cells can punch, new 24R

searched the hints that Luke supplied in the post below this one:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/liste_akkus.php Thanks, hillhater.

Samsung, INR 18650 20R, 2000 mAh, $7 (LiMn2O4?)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HID-Battery...US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item4ac1deaf5c

Panasonic, NCR 18650 PD, 2900 mAh, $13 (NCR / LiNiCoAl?)
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/12/panasonic-20091219.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-N...US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item337f4fe988

Samsung, INR 18650 29E, 2900 mAh, $9 (NCR / LiNiCoAl?)
http://www.samsungsdi.com/battery/cylindrical-rechargeable-battery.jsp
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-INR...038895677?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item1c2e7afa3d
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Samsung-...RC_Modellbau&hash=item1c2e7afa3d#ht_961wt_952

cell_mans new triangle pack is using the Samsung SDI ICR-18650-22P 4.5C rated cell (NCM?)
 
Hillhater said:
liveforphysics said:
. Both are making roughly the same heat for a given current load, one just lasts longer by a clear margin. Thats the NCA one. :)
Click to expand...

but the Panasonic is a 2.9Ahr cell and the Samsung is only a 2.0 Ahr ??

It would seem from that http://www.dampfakkus.de/liste_akkus.php site, there are a lot of NCA cells available.
But if you want something to hold up under high discharge it would look like the AW IMR 18650 1600mAh (Red) is the top dog..
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/AW%20IMR%2018650%201600mAh%20%28Red%29%20UK.html
AW%20IMR%2018650%201600mAh%20(Red)-Capacity.png
Click to expand...


The samsung one is NOT NCA in my opinion, or that's not the right graph of it if it is. NCA should have a ~3.6v nominal voltage and a long gently sloping discharge curve.

Also, on that list, I saw nothing that would make me think an NCA cell. You know IMR means spinel right?
 
Random unverified info from the web...

First off, this will explain their names:

In the case of IXR, the first Letter "I" just means that the cell is a Li-ion rechargeable. Second letter refers to the cathode material. The last letter "R" just means the cell is round.

ICR: the "C" = Co which is Cobalt.

IFR: the "F" = "Fe" which is Iron

IMR: the "M" = "Mn" which is Manganese

The NCR chemistry [name] is a Panasonic invention - it is LiNiCoAl chemistry in full nomenclature.

There is the Panasonic:
NCR18650__(2900 mAh)
NCR18650A_(3100mAh)
NCR18650B_(3400mAh)

The also rather new NCR18650PD which also has 2900mAh but, it is different to the aforementioned in that it is a high-current cell that is claimed to sustain a 10A load, just like the Panasonic CGR18650CH (IMR chemistry).
Click to expand...
 
liveforphysics said:
Hillhater said:
It would seem from that http://www.dampfakkus.de/liste_akkus.php site, there are a lot of NCA cells available.
But if you want something to hold up under high discharge it would look like the AW IMR 18650 1600mAh (Red) is the top dog..
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/AW%20IMR%2018650%201600mAh%20%28Red%29%20UK.html
AW%20IMR%2018650%201600mAh%20(Red)-Capacity.png
Click to expand...


The samsung one is NOT NCA in my opinion, or that's not the right graph of it if it is. NCA should have a ~3.6v nominal voltage and a long gently sloping discharge curve.

Also, on that list, I saw nothing that would make me think an NCA cell. You know IMR means spinel right?
Click to expand...

That graph is for the AW 1600mAhr cell. which is listed as an "IMR" Lithium Manganese (LiMn2O4) .
and has apparently been tested at 24A discharge :shock:
Note the slope of the graph is distorted by the different voltage scaling ( vertical axis)
The "dampfakkus.de lists show the chemistry on a separate page if you click on the cell model number.
Lots of cells are listed as NCR / LiNiCoAl chemistry.

But as i said there is much confusing and contradictory info floating about. :cry:
 
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/12/panasonic-20091219.html

Panasonic Corporation has developed an 18650-type high-capacity 3.1-Ah lithium-ion battery and began mass production of the battery this December [2012]. The new 3.1-Ah cell has a nickel cathode and an energy density of 675 Wh/L.

The company successfully achieved safety and higher capacity by using its Heat Resistance Layer (HRL) technology that forms an insulating metal oxide layer between the positive and negative electrodes. The layer prevents the battery from overheating even if a short circuit occurs.
Click to expand...
 
spinningmagnets said:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/12/panasonic-20091219.html

Panasonic Corporation has developed an 18650-type high-capacity 3.1-Ah lithium-ion battery and began mass production of the battery this December [2012]. The new 3.1-Ah cell has a nickel cathode and an energy density of 675 Wh/L.

The company successfully achieved safety and higher capacity by using its Heat Resistance Layer (HRL) technology that forms an insulating metal oxide layer between the positive and negative electrodes. The layer prevents the battery from overheating even if a short circuit occurs.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Spinner'.... Do you realize that was a 2009 article , and that cell has been since surpassed by many others !
 
Sorry, I didn't know it was from that long ago, but...I thought the part about this was relevant, I hadn't heard this before:

...forms an insulating metal oxide layer...The layer prevents the battery from overheating even if a short circuit occurs
Click to expand...
 
I have used that seller before to buy some welded up 5s2p Konion cell replacement drill pack inserts, which I then adapted for my ebike.

Good reliable supplier with good communication.

Jerry
 
Thanks for posting that. Does he deal in only the Panasonic cells, or the Samsung cells, or both? Since he is willing to spot-weld parallel cell groups, how flexible did he sound as far as configuration of the strings? I could have him make up 12 of the 4P cell groups, which would save me 2/3rds of the work of putting together a 12S / 14-Ah-ish pack, but if I wanted to make a triangle pack, some of the 4P strings would be in a in a square or "L" formation instead of a straight line...

To be clear, we are talking about ebay seller "supowerbattery111", yes?
 
Yes that is the seller.

They sell Sony,sanyo, Panasonic's and Samsung.

As far as configurations;

What I did was a sketch of my 4p arrangement and confirmed via email that they'll do it that way. After payment they make 1 parallel brick then they take pics and send them to you for you to confirm that's what you want. They can also do series connections but if its a big pack they have to split it for shipping.

Overall no one else gives this attention to a customer. The price is a bit high but you do get quality spot welds and excellent communication.
 
Spacey said:
Still too pricey compared with A123 or other lifepo4
Click to expand...

I needed the density of this chemistry. And frankly I don't wanna deal with a mess of lipo wiring and spaghetti balance connectors in my commuter bikes, lipo stays in the just for fun bikes. I think 390$ is a good price for 8ah 15s li- ion. Hell people pay 700$ for all cell packs.

Also is nice to have a seller that does the spot welding for your packs.
 
Well I finally got around to assemble my pack... Here are the pics. In the end it will be a 8ah 15s pack. All the bricks measured 3.94v since they arrived a week ago and voltage has remained the same :)

Pretty compact if you ask me

13633031744951.jpg

13633032025702.jpg

13633032228893.jpg
 

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