Samsung INR18650-20R .. yes these cells can punch, new 24R

[parabellum]

Be careful, even 20-30C Turnigy LiPos heat considerably at continuous 5C discharge at the end of the cycle. Not sure if it is enough to melt heat glue, but it is already warm where you live. Anyway, tight box will solve that.

 

[SamTexas]

If Samsung is making NCA cells now, they've joined Panasonic as the first two I've heard of making the switch so far at a level where they are actually making meaningful volume production rather than just BS datasheets and engineering samples but no real production volume.

Samsung has been making INR cells for at least 3 years now. I have several INR18650-13Q (1300mAh) cells. They do fine and deliver full capacity at 3C, but not at 5C. At 5C they get real hot and only deliver 1000mAh (77%).

 

[MitchJi]

Hi migueralliart,

Do you have an email address for supowerbattery111?

Ebay gets my pita award of the day for March 15.

I replied to this:

From: "eBay Member: supowerbattery111" <supowe_gq6306uatx@members.ebay.com.hk>
Reply-To: supowe_gq6306uatx@members.ebay.com.hk
To: mitch*****@comcast.net
Subject: supowerbattery111 sent a message about HID Battery Samsung 20A 18650 20R INR18650-20R

And got this:

We were unable to deliver your message to
supowe_gq6306uatx@members.ebay.com.hk

Then when I asked them to send me their email address I got this message:

For your safety, eBay does not allow the exchange of email addresses in member to member communications . This protects both buyers and sellers by keeping a track record of communications. It also helps ensure that transactions happen on eBay so buyers and sellers are covered by eBay protection programs.

Please remove the email address and resend your message.

If you want to receive photos from another eBay member, you do not need to share your email address. Buyers and sellers can now attach images to messages sent from eBay by using the “Attach Photos” button.

I really like how they try to convince me that they are screwing with me to help me

I decided to send my email address via a picture and got this (what's the connection between sending photos and the format of incoming emails?):

In order to send your photos, you need to be able to receive HTML-formatted emails from eBay. This can be changed in communications preferences in the account settings section in My eBay.

 

[migueralliart]

Mitch,

This is their email address supowerbattery@gmail.com

Mention to them that you're from endless sphere. Also they always ask me to go thru eBay for the final transaction since that way your covered thru PayPal.

Let me know if I can help.

 

[Lussy]

From the info here these cells look promising to me -
They are relativly energy dense, safe ?, can be made made to form a triangle or other shape and have a C rating that is useful for most. Also a supplier who will do most of the work to make a useable pack.

A couple questions,

What is the quality control like, Will dud cells be an issue? Does supowerbattery supply new A gade cells?
One would expect the likes of Samsung and Panasonic to produce quality cells with the necessry QA/QC

Also, is balance charging or a BMS required to be used?

 

[MitchJi]

Hi migueralliart,

Mitch,

This is their email address supowerbattery@gmail.com

Mention to them that you're from endless sphere. Also they always ask me to go thru eBay for the final transaction since that way your covered thru PayPal.

Let me know if I can help.

Thanks for their address and starting this thread.

I'm not trying to purchase outside of ebay. I bought 4 of these cells for 2 of these flashlights:
http://www.lighthound.com/Solar-For...650--L2P-Host-HA-III-Black-Finish_p_3473.html

Features:
-Special edition of Solar Force L2 Host in Mil-spec type III hard anodized in black

Features:
* Flashlight host (head assembly + battery tube + tail switch assembly) without built/drop-in
* Made of aluminum alloy
* Can use either a LED (Cree/ IR/ UV)-reflector or an incandescent (Xenon) bulb-reflector module
* Different functions depending on the Cree LED module being used: single or multiple output levels
* Uses both primary (CR123A) lithium or rechargeable li-ion (16340 or 18650) batteries (not included)
* Tail clicky switch
* 97 grams (without batteries)
* Length x diameter (head and battery tube, mm): 140 x 32 x 25

At the same time I asked for a price for 1,200 cells. Its more convenient to correspond via email. I'll post the price when I get it.

Thanks Again!

 

[circuit]

$7 for 2Ah cell is $3.5/Ah, which is 3 times more expensive than other quality cells... A bit too much.

 

[migueralliart]

$7 for 2Ah cell is $3.5/Ah, which is 3 times more expensive than other quality cells... A bit too much.

Its not cost per AH but capability of a high discharge on a known and safe chemistry. Everyone loves lipo but don't want a fireball. Everyone loves lifepo4 but don't like the size. To me this is the answer that bridges the gap. Even thou you say its 3.5$ /ah the Panasonic's are more than 4$/ah.

No one said this is the cheapest but for the diy the seller gives you a headstart with all the spot welding.

 

[spinningmagnets]

For me, a lot of E-bike builds are gravitating to DH frames. They have small triangles, and putting the battery in the triangle is highly desireable by many builders. If someone could squeeze 16-Ah of 44V in a safe chemistry into a small triangle-pack...there is a market for that. Maybe not a BIG market, but...there is no particular facet of the E-bike game that makes everyone happy (ask Chalo). I tried to sell LiPo to local college students a couple years back, couldn't find a buyer, the dorms wouldn't allow LiPo.

E-bikes are a buffet. Your stomach is only so big, so pick the items that you most desire, and leave the rest. I don't care what the guy at the next table is eating, life is short and I am old.

 

[ttkc]

Wow, that's so expensive. I can never afford that. I built my battery using 20 of these


They came spot welded in 1s3p so assembly is quick and mininal. Each pack cost me $9.00 for 7.2Ah or 26.64Wh. They don't have the high discharge rate but was more than enough for my ebike and only cost a third of your cell price. Of course, I would use your cells if I wanted a race bike, but for now I only need a regular ebike, plus my budget just won't allow it at this moment.

 

[parabellum]

Wow, that's so expensive. I can never afford that. I built my battery using 20 of these


They came spot welded in 1s3p so assembly is quick and mininal. Each pack cost me $9.00 for 7.2Ah or 26.64Wh. They don't have the high discharge rate but was more than enough for my ebike and only cost a third of your cell price. Of course, I would use your cells if I wanted a race bike, but for now I only need a regular ebike, plus my budget just won't allow it at this moment.

What are the specs, chemistry? Where did you get them?

 

[migueralliart]

Those look to me like sanyos . they can't handle 2c so you need a slightly bigger capacity than your controller current rate.

 

[dnmun]

also there is no cardboard insulator under the parallel strap. if you look at how the end of the strap is cut so there is a sharp corner right above the thin plastic insulation of the case, it is just waiting to cut through the plastic and short out that row. this is why the Vpower packs fail.

those cardboard insulators must be so cheap and yet the guys who spot welded that 1S3P decided they could do it cheaper. but once they are sold they don't have any responsibility for the cells.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Here's a pic showing proper insulation under the strips:

 

[ttkc]

also there is no cardboard insulator under the parallel strap. if you look at how the end of the strap is cut so there is a sharp corner right above the thin plastic insulation of the case, it is just waiting to cut through the plastic and short out that row. this is why the Vpower packs fail.

those cardboard insulators must be so cheap and yet the guys who spot welded that 1S3P decided they could do it cheaper. but once they are sold they don't have any responsibility for the cells.

Why am I not surprised. This is my third post on this board but I'm not a newbie. I have worked with laptop cells long enough to tell who really knows what they are talking about. And you don't. I have been reading this forum for a long time and I know you so well. You wait for a new comer and intimidate them with your make believe knowledge. It won't work with me. So stay away before I unmask you with your countless stupid advices. Now, let me go back to the real discussion with real adults.

 

[ttkc]

Here's a pic showing proper insulation under the strips:

Yes. That is the safer way to connect the cells if they are to be used in a rough environment. It's not necessary in laptop batteries. Before I bought these 1s3p packs, I had disassembled close to a hundred laptop batteries from Compaq, HP, IBM and Toshiba. Some of them do have an extra paper tape ring around the positive terminal, most don't. I am sure billion dollars company like IBM, HP know more about these things than that silly dnmummy or whatever the heck his name is.

 

[ttkc]

Those look to me like sanyos . they can't handle 2c so you need a slightly bigger capacity than your controller current rate.

These packs are removed from new overstocked Dell laptop batteries. I have seen the exact same cells in HP batteries as well. But they are not Sanyos. If I remember correctly, the seller told me that these are generic cells made in Japan that are bought and used by laptop manufacturers as a second source supply. My pack is a 10s6p, so 14.4Ah. It weighs exactly 6 lbs before the connectors and balance wires. I use it with a 350W front geared hub and a 17A controller. It's been six months now and I have no complain. Here's the amazing thing: I balanced the pack when it was built. I only bulk charge it (to 41.0V). I check the balance every two or three charges. It's still balanced today, after about 50 cycles. So no manual balancing at all, so far.

 

[migueralliart]

I'm happy for you ... For my application I do 40+ amps every startup I will kill those cells in no time.

Anyway what I really contributed here is the seller which does an excellent service.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Why am I not surprised. This is my third post on this board but I'm not a newbie. I have worked with laptop cells long enough to tell who really knows what they are talking about. And you don't. I have been reading this forum for a long time and I know you so well. You wait for a new comer and intimidate them with your make believe knowledge. It won't work with me. So stay away before I unmask you with your countless stupid advices. Now, let me go back to the real discussion with real adults.

I am sure billion dollars company like IBM, HP know more about these things than that silly dnmummy or whatever the heck his name is.

I'm sure most of us want a friendly, supportive exchange of information and opinions. Please don't post those kinds of useless, unnecessary and uncalled for insults on this board.

 

[ttkc]

I do too. And I'm sorry for being blunt with that guy. But I knew him well through his posts, and this is my way to tell him not to bother trying his bs on me. I'm an easy going person (I think), but I can not and will not tolerate audacity, ignorance and pretense.

 

[ttkc]

What are the specs, chemistry? Where did you get them?

These cells are removed from new overstocked Dell laptop batteries. So I guess they are typical Lithium Cobalt. I'm working from memory here. I think the seller said 0.5C continuous and 2C burst.

When I saw these on Ebay at $9, I was very skeptical, especially for a 7.2Ah pack, and already spot welded. So I only bought 2 packs to test. To my surprise, it was not 7.2Ah, but 7.35 and 7.40Ah. And that was at 3.6A continuous discharge from 4.2 to 3.0V. Anyway, I emailed him and ask for a discount for 20 packs (60 cells). Since I did not go through Ebay, he sold them to me at the same price, but shipping was free. Worked out to around $30 saving, I think.

 

[SamTexas]

$7 for 2Ah cell is $3.5/Ah, which is 3 times more expensive than other quality cells... A bit too much.

Agree. That's $0.95/Wh. And from my experience with the Samsung INR18650-13q cells, I don't think it can do more than 3C continous.

I bought six A123 20Ah (actually 19.5Ah) pouches for $30 each. Made in USA, not sure if that made a difference. That's $0.47/Wh. The pouches actually deliver full capacity at 5C (100A). I really wanted to test them at 10C, but I lacked the necessary equipment. At 5C, there is virtually no voltage sag and the pouches are barely warm at the end of the discharge.

 

[docnjoj]

also there is no cardboard insulator under the parallel strap. if you look at how the end of the strap is cut so there is a sharp corner right above the thin plastic insulation of the case, it is just waiting to cut through the plastic and short out that row. this is why the Vpower packs fail.

those cardboard insulators must be so cheap and yet the guys who spot welded that 1S3P decided they could do it cheaper. but once they are sold they don't have any responsibility for the cells.

Why am I not surprised. This is my third post on this board but I'm not a newbie. I have worked with laptop cells long enough to tell who really knows what they are talking about. And you don't. I have been reading this forum for a long time and I know you so well. You wait for a new comer and intimidate them with your make believe knowledge. It won't work with me. So stay away before I unmask you with your countless stupid advices. Now, let me go back to the real discussion with real adults.

Good evening ttks and welcome to ES. That statement seems quite a vitrololic attack for someone who has not posted before. I don't usually get into this stuff but dunmn has tried and helped a bunch of us on this board. Your intro posts sound like you understand battery chemistry but why the animus? He may not be perfect but who among us is?
otherDoc

 

[Lussy]

While trying to find out more about NCR cells, I stumbled aross a shop ' FASTTECH'

They have 2 x Panasonic NCR18650PD cells for ~ $15 with free shipping

They use Paypal and a quick Google search didn't come up qwith any 'scam' type warnings or reviews

http://www.fasttech.com/products/1420/10001980/1233700-panasonic-ncr18650pd-18650-36v-2900mah-rechargeabl

Has anyone had experiance with this online shop?

Cheers
Matt

 

[migueralliart]

$7 for 2Ah cell is $3.5/Ah, which is 3 times more expensive than other quality cells... A bit too much.

Agree. That's $0.95/Wh. And from my experience with the Samsung INR18650-13q cells, I don't think it can do more than 3C continous.

I bought six A123 20Ah (actually 19.5Ah) pouches for $30 each. Made in USA, not sure if that made a difference. That's $0.47/Wh. The pouches actually deliver full capacity at 5C (100A). I really wanted to test them at 10C, but I lacked the necessary equipment. At 5C, there is virtually no voltage sag and the pouches are barely warm at the end of the discharge.

And how much did you pay for the assembling kit to put those together? 100$ 150$ ?