TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

[Goody5]

Hi

Loaded the 1.0.0 with 860C display and all the torque calibration setting etc. Everything works great except sufficient power from a standing start.

There seems to be a significant difference in the start up power from the stock firmware and 1.0.0.

I live on a hill and with the stock firmware can start up comfortably in 4th gear in power level 2 but with 1.0.0 it is a real struggle even if I set the assist level to maximum.

I have seen a few posts regarding this and tried a few suggested setting but with no luck. Haven’t got my head around whether I have got some settings wrong or there is some other issue.

Interested to know whether others who are using 1.0.0 noticed a difference in standing start power between stock and 1.0.0

I have a 36V motor

 

[electroriderIT]

A question about the boot loader box:
I see that there is no new version of the firmware available for the boot loader programming..only the Version 0.6.2 (which pairs with Motor Version 0.51.0) -
So....my question is: if I get the boot loader box...will I be only capable of loading old firmware versions?

So strange because the display still has its original Bafang compatible firmare that works on it!

Ps: maybe I'll try to get a Bootloader box.... Does anyone know if any user of the forum can build one for me?

a little update after some tests.
- with display connected to tsdz2 the display powers on, no problem.
- nothing has changed the way the software does not recognize the programmer.

-I checked all 5 wires soldered on the display and they seem to be ok. I also desoldered GND cable from display and checked all other 4 pins with the multimeter to find some problems. the other 4 pins with cables soldered are NOT shortened each other..should be good that way.... When I solder back the GND cable if I test GND with other pins, some are in continuity , but also that should be good due to the connections of the display board (right?)

- so everything "connection side" seems fine but I get these errors ( depending on the combination that I use to workaround , in the software jtag, swd, hard reset etc..al the options in stm32 st link software)
Schermata 2020-08-31 alle 13.06.41.png
Schermata 2020-08-31 alle 13.06.17.png
- A curious detail: downloaded the firmware st link update software and it recognize and updates the firmware...BUT then in the stm32 st link software NOTHING!
Schermata 2020-08-31 alle 13.05.41.png
Schermata 2020-08-31 alle 18.48.49.png

Is possible your display is not working anymore, it could be damaged for some reason in the process, this kind of things happen.

You can buy bootloader box here: https://www.eco-ebike.com/products/...g-and-play-tsdz2-open-source-firmware-updater

 

[danj]

Hi,

Can anybody help me with the right way to revert to stock firmware?

I have installed the 1.0.0 version together with a 860C display without any issues, based on everything I found here, thank you very much! Did the calibration, all's well. My only slight concern is that the autonomy seems lower, but as this is highly subjective I thought of testing it. So I prepared a standard test, running until the battery was dead, in stages of 5% of SOC% taking notes of the assist level, duration per stage, distance and speed for each stage. Just for info, I ran the motor 10% of SOC in assist 6, 70% assist 8 and 20% assist level 10, with a relatively loaded touring bike. The result was a 4h46' 109km ride, mostly flat (+256m) with a 22.5 km/h average speed.
Now, I would like to repeat exactly the same ride with the stock firmware and my stock VLCD6. I tried, as advised before I started the changes, to flash the motor again with the backup that I made of the stock firmware before installing the OSF 1.0.0. I can flash it, but then there is no reaction to the VLCD6. I tried the VLCD6 on another motor with stock firmware and it works. Is there anything more/different that I should do?

I am amazed by the trove of information that you have so kindly contributed with, so thank you again for your help.

Did you reflash back the original option bytes?

No, I haven't, and don't know how. I looked a bit through the posts and appearantly I should have saved the original file but I haven't. So, could you please direct me to a walkthrough for this process and a link to the correct option byte file? I have a 750W 48V motor with a VLCD5. Thank you very much

 

[mctubster]

No, I haven't, and don't know how. I looked a bit through the posts and appearantly I should have saved the original file but I haven't. So, could you please direct me to a walkthrough for this process and a link to the correct option byte file? I have a 750W 48V motor with a VLCD5. Thank you very much

Use this guide https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2-motor-firmware-programming

Original files here https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eGcBtTj8GrGQ4tDJAECr6ejMrpW2ZqvH

Looks like you use the datamemory files. Anyway read the guide

Cheers

 

[danj]

No, I haven't, and don't know how. I looked a bit through the posts and appearantly I should have saved the original file but I haven't. So, could you please direct me to a walkthrough for this process and a link to the correct option byte file? I have a 750W 48V motor with a VLCD5. Thank you very much

Use this guide https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2-motor-firmware-programming

Original files here https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eGcBtTj8GrGQ4tDJAECr6ejMrpW2ZqvH

Looks like you use the datamemory files. Anyway read the guide

Cheers

Great, thank you very much mctubster! No I have everything working again with the stock firmware. I will post my conclusion regarding the autonomy comparison soon.

 

[dameri]

A question about the boot loader box:
I see that there is no new version of the firmware available for the boot loader programming..only the Version 0.6.2 (which pairs with Motor Version 0.51.0) -
So....my question is: if I get the boot loader box...will I be only capable of loading old firmware versions?

So strange because the display still has its original Bafang compatible firmare that works on it!

Ps: maybe I'll try to get a Bootloader box.... Does anyone know if any user of the forum can build one for me?

Is possible your display is not working anymore, it could be damaged for some reason in the process, this kind of things happen.

You can buy bootloader box here: https://www.eco-ebike.com/products/...g-and-play-tsdz2-open-source-firmware-updater

I don't know where you have looked, but here is all versions and there is on top newest version. You only use bootloader for display. For TSDZ2 programmin you use ST-link. https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/Color_LCD/releases

 

[danj]

I like doing a lot of long days touring, some 10h in the saddle per day for 3-4 weeks in a row. Up to now, I did that with a regular touring bike but after discovering the TSDZ2 and the OSF with a 860C I am eager to use it as much as possible. So, in my quest for efficiency (read autonomy) I am curious about the things that I can improve in my riding based on the very rich information that we can get from the OSF (thanks again, casainho). I know that the speed (through air resistance) is the most important parameter to control in order to minimize power loss. What other factors are there that are worth looking at? I am mostly interested in things we can control, like cadence and speed and maybe how, together with the gear ratio we can be closer to maximum motor efficiency.

Is PWM duty cycle a parameter to look for and if yes, what is the optimum?
What else is there worth looking at and aiming for?

This may have been discussed before and if so, could you please direct me to the relevant threads? If not, I would be very happy to contribute with my own tests, if I understand what to look for. Thank you.

 

[casainho]

I like doing a lot of long days touring, some 10h in the saddle per day for 3-4 weeks in a row. Up to now, I did that with a regular touring bike but after discovering the TSDZ2 and the OSF with a 860C I am eager to use it as much as possible. So, in my quest for efficiency (read autonomy) I am curious about the things that I can improve in my riding based on the very rich information that we can get from the OSF (thanks again, casainho). I know that the speed (through air resistance) is the most important parameter to control in order to minimize power loss. What other factors are there that are worth looking at? I am mostly interested in things we can control, like cadence and speed and maybe how, together with the gear ratio we can be closer to maximum motor efficiency.

Is PWM duty cycle a parameter to look for and if yes, what is the optimum?
What else is there worth looking at and aiming for?

This may have been discussed before and if so, could you please direct me to the relevant threads? If not, I would be very happy to contribute with my own tests, if I understand what to look for. Thank you.

Keep an eye on the Wh/km value to evaluate.

Do not forget to see the losses due to your battery quality / internal resistance!!

 

[vshitikov]

Hi

Loaded the 1.0.0 with 860C display and all the torque calibration setting etc. Everything works great except sufficient power from a standing start.

There seems to be a significant difference in the start up power from the stock firmware and 1.0.0.

I live on a hill and with the stock firmware can start up comfortably in 4th gear in power level 2 but with 1.0.0 it is a real struggle even if I set the assist level to maximum.

I have seen a few posts regarding this and tried a few suggested setting but with no luck. Haven’t got my head around whether I have got some settings wrong or there is some other issue.

Interested to know whether others who are using 1.0.0 noticed a difference in standing start power between stock and 1.0.0

I have a 36V motor

Unselect your torque calibration, it helps a bit to have a better start.

 

[vshitikov]

I like doing a lot of long days touring, some 10h in the saddle per day for 3-4 weeks in a row. Up to now, I did that with a regular touring bike but after discovering the TSDZ2 and the OSF with a 860C I am eager to use it as much as possible. So, in my quest for efficiency (read autonomy) I am curious about the things that I can improve in my riding based on the very rich information that we can get from the OSF (thanks again, casainho). I know that the speed (through air resistance) is the most important parameter to control in order to minimize power loss. What other factors are there that are worth looking at? I am mostly interested in things we can control, like cadence and speed and maybe how, together with the gear ratio we can be closer to maximum motor efficiency.

Is PWM duty cycle a parameter to look for and if yes, what is the optimum?
What else is there worth looking at and aiming for?

This may have been discussed before and if so, could you please direct me to the relevant threads? If not, I would be very happy to contribute with my own tests, if I understand what to look for. Thank you.

I do a lot of tooring with kids on my cargo bike and in terms of autonomy there is only one thing that helps - using gears like on a regular bike. I guess your know how to do that as you come from a regular bike. Limit your max current to 16A or less. Batteries don't like strong current surges. Use as low assistance as you can bear. Do not start like a motorcycle, this will help on the blue gear as well. With one 17ah battery you can do up to hundred kilometers if you don't use full assistance depending on your terrain.

 

[nesdon]

Hi

Loaded the 1.0.0 with 860C display and all the torque calibration setting etc. Everything works great except sufficient power from a standing start.

There seems to be a significant difference in the start up power from the stock firmware and 1.0.0.

I live on a hill and with the stock firmware can start up comfortably in 4th gear in power level 2 but with 1.0.0 it is a real struggle even if I set the assist level to maximum.

I have seen a few posts regarding this and tried a few suggested setting but with no luck. Haven’t got my head around whether I have got some settings wrong or there is some other issue.

Interested to know whether others who are using 1.0.0 noticed a difference in standing start power between stock and 1.0.0

I have a 36V motor

Unselect your torque calibration, it helps a bit to have a better start.

I've too have been trying many different configurations, and still have this same problem of it taking a few rotations at a very high pedal torque before I get any assist. Not much a problem anywhere accept shifting on a hill. I have not tried turning off pedal calibration. I'll give that a shot.

The flip side is that as I get my speed up and am able to reduce torque, it seems to continue to add high assist. I solve this by just reducing the assist level, but I've felt like the torque sensing feature with this TSDZ should be able to match the boost with the pedal torque, and I'm surprised it does it so poorly.

I've been using the start up boost, but I really dislike the way it uses a timer to cut the boost, which is especially annoying when accidentally bumping the pedals while off the bike and having it try to take off for way more seconds than I like.

If the stock firmware does do this better, there must be set of configurations that can match that behavior. I changed to the OSF before I had much experience, so don't really recall how it behaved. The customizability of the OSF is pretty wonderful, but I'm not really understanding what setting is making it take this pause before reacting.

 

[Goody5]

Hi

Loaded the 1.0.0 with 860C display and all the torque calibration setting etc. Everything works great except sufficient power from a standing start.

There seems to be a significant difference in the start up power from the stock firmware and 1.0.0.

I live on a hill and with the stock firmware can start up comfortably in 4th gear in power level 2 but with 1.0.0 it is a real struggle even if I set the assist level to maximum.

I have seen a few posts regarding this and tried a few suggested setting but with no luck. Haven’t got my head around whether I have got some settings wrong or there is some other issue.

Interested to know whether others who are using 1.0.0 noticed a difference in standing start power between stock and 1.0.0

I have a 36V motor

Unselect your torque calibration, it helps a bit to have a better start.

I've too have been trying many different configurations, and still have this same problem of it taking a few rotations at a very high pedal torque before I get any assist. Not much a problem anywhere accept shifting on a hill. I have not tried turning off pedal calibration. I'll give that a shot.

The flip side is that as I get my speed up and am able to reduce torque, it seems to continue to add high assist. I solve this by just reducing the assist level, but I've felt like the torque sensing feature with this TSDZ should be able to match the boost with the pedal torque, and I'm surprised it does it so poorly.

I've been using the start up boost, but I really dislike the way it uses a timer to cut the boost, which is especially annoying when accidentally bumping the pedals while off the bike and having it try to take off for way more seconds than I like.

If the stock firmware does do this better, there must be set of configurations that can match that behavior. I changed to the OSF before I had much experience, so don't really recall how it behaved. The customizability of the OSF is pretty wonderful, but I'm not really understanding what setting is making it take this pause before reacting.

I put a 5 pin connector the same as the 860C display on my VLCD5 so that I could easily swap between stock and OSF firmware, so I can tell easily if there is a difference in the startup power between the two firmwares when I change any settings. Still working on it

 

[danj]

I like doing a lot of long days touring, some 10h in the saddle per day for 3-4 weeks in a row. Up to now, I did that with a regular touring bike but after discovering the TSDZ2 and the OSF with a 860C I am eager to use it as much as possible. So, in my quest for efficiency (read autonomy) I am curious about the things that I can improve in my riding based on the very rich information that we can get from the OSF (thanks again, casainho). I know that the speed (through air resistance) is the most important parameter to control in order to minimize power loss. What other factors are there that are worth looking at? I am mostly interested in things we can control, like cadence and speed and maybe how, together with the gear ratio we can be closer to maximum motor efficiency.

Is PWM duty cycle a parameter to look for and if yes, what is the optimum?
What else is there worth looking at and aiming for?

This may have been discussed before and if so, could you please direct me to the relevant threads? If not, I would be very happy to contribute with my own tests, if I understand what to look for. Thank you.

I do a lot of tooring with kids on my cargo bike and in terms of autonomy there is only one thing that helps - using gears like on a regular bike. I guess your know how to do that as you come from a regular bike. Limit your max current to 16A or less. Batteries don't like strong current surges. Use as low assistance as you can bear. Do not start like a motorcycle, this will help on the blue gear as well. With one 17ah battery you can do up to hundred kilometers if you don't use full assistance depending on your terrain.

Hi vshitikov, I do indeed ride my bike like a regular one, changing gears all the time and using same human power (effort) as without any assistance. I very much enjoy the assistance to make hills and wind not matter that much anymore, while being aware of their impact and as such reducing expectations in terms of speed. What I am looking for is optimizing the motor's efficiency, if there is such a way, by trying to keep it in it's best regime. Is there such a regime for this motor? Through the OSF we have access to some parameters like pwm, FOC, etc. Are there ideal values for them to strive for, as I noticed that they can be influenced by the way we ride?
Thank you again

 

[vshitikov]

I like doing a lot of long days touring, some 10h in the saddle per day for 3-4 weeks in a row. Up to now, I did that with a regular touring bike but after discovering the TSDZ2 and the OSF with a 860C I am eager to use it as much as possible. So, in my quest for efficiency (read autonomy) I am curious about the things that I can improve in my riding based on the very rich information that we can get from the OSF (thanks again, casainho). I know that the speed (through air resistance) is the most important parameter to control in order to minimize power loss. What other factors are there that are worth looking at? I am mostly interested in things we can control, like cadence and speed and maybe how, together with the gear ratio we can be closer to maximum motor efficiency.

Is PWM duty cycle a parameter to look for and if yes, what is the optimum?
What else is there worth looking at and aiming for?

This may have been discussed before and if so, could you please direct me to the relevant threads? If not, I would be very happy to contribute with my own tests, if I understand what to look for. Thank you.

I do a lot of tooring with kids on my cargo bike and in terms of autonomy there is only one thing that helps - using gears like on a regular bike. I guess your know how to do that as you come from a regular bike. Limit your max current to 16A or less. Batteries don't like strong current surges. Use as low assistance as you can bear. Do not start like a motorcycle, this will help on the blue gear as well. With one 17ah battery you can do up to hundred kilometers if you don't use full assistance depending on your terrain.

Hi vshitikov, I do indeed ride my bike like a regular one, changing gears all the time and using same human power (effort) as without any assistance. I very much enjoy the assistance to make hills and wind not matter that much anymore, while being aware of their impact and as such reducing expectations in terms of speed. What I am looking for is optimizing the motor's efficiency, if there is such a way, by trying to keep it in it's best regime. Is there such a regime for this motor? Through the OSF we have access to some parameters like pwm, FOC, etc. Are there ideal values for them to strive for, as I noticed that they can be influenced by the way we ride?
Thank you again

Casainho certanly knows more, but you simply keep your rpm in acceptable range so the motor does not need to force, on the low rpm but the high torque. You can look at the current and keep your pedal rpm high enough (but less than 90rpm) so the motor is in the green zone. By listening the motor you can hear that it's struggling so you downgrade your gear.

With the latest version over the 90rpm the efficiency drops 25% so it's best to avoid where you can. I keep my rpm in the 40-80 range and get a decent range even with a loaded bike.

 

[casainho]

With the latest version over the 90rpm the efficiency drops 25% so it's best to avoid where you can. I keep my rpm in the 40-80 range and get a decent range even with a loaded bike.

Better to keep this feature, the field weakening, disabled on the configurations.

The losses on the battery and cables can be big and square with the current, so, the best is to use lower power as possible.

 

[Aquakitty]

With the latest version over the 90rpm the efficiency drops 25% so it's best to avoid where you can. I keep my rpm in the 40-80 range and get a decent range even with a loaded bike.

Better to keep this feature, the field weakening, disabled on the configurations.

The losses on the battery and cables can be big and square with the current, so, the best is to use lower power as possible.

Do you mean better to leave field weakening on, or disable it? I like to spin up hills but it does seem that my battery is being used up quicker.

Really the thing that matters most to any ebike system is going to be the hills and how well you can climb them on your own. With a decent load you will kill your battery so much faster.

I am also trying to get more out of my battery lately with some experimental bikepacking trips. There is no doubt you need lower gearing to get there if you have any serious climbing. I did a 1000 meter climb the other day (over about 10 km, total 38 km with a full decent) and my 12.8 ah was just barely enough with the motor set from levels 6 - 8. I did make the mistake of having too high gearing so I could not go to lower settings with a load or I'd be walking the short steep single track sections. I have a 36t front/34 rear, I think a 30 front would be the sweet spot for LD climbs. Before I felt like 30t was too low for anything.

 

[Heisenberg60]

Hey guy`s,

i`m new to the Forum and want to say hello to you all.

First of all a realy big thank you to all members which invest their money and spare-time to develope this great project.

I`ve just installed my TSDZ2 and flashed the OSF succesfully. this week i drove my first 100km, mostly to and from work.
i realy like the software and the motor, especially that you can adjust basicly anything you want

BUT i encountered one annoying problem:
as soon as i turn on the lights, the motor-support gets messed up.
for example: when i drove at 25km/h and stop pedaling (for example downhill), the support won`t kick in as i start to pedal again. It takes between 1 and 20 Seconds for the motor to get engaged again, which is realy annoying when you drive uphill.
The delay also seems to be dependent on the current on the light-controller, the delay is way smaller when i just use the taillight.

I´ve read somewhere in this thread about the lag problem with the TSDZ2, also the same issue (lights lag) was documented in version 0.18 (i think) but was marked as fixed.

Is there any quick fix for this problem in the settings ? i already tried the different steps on the ADC lights current offset. :?

 

[casainho]

I`ve just installed my TSDZ2 and flashed the OSF succesfully. this week i drove my first 100km, mostly to and from work.
i realy like the software and the motor, especially that you can adjust basicly anything you want

BUT i encountered one annoying problem:
as soon as i turn on the lights, the motor-support gets messed up.

Is there any quick fix for this problem in the settings ? i already tried the different steps on the ADC lights current offset. :?

I need to buy the lights to be able to debug and them fix this issue.

Your description of the issue makes me wonder If the problem is not the fact we should impose a min current value, like min of 1 amp...

 

[pagaille]

Hi,

Since I replaced my inner hall sensor (the one inside the motor itself), I noticed the following behaviours :

- Motor works perfectly but max power is limited to 420W, EXCEPT when cadence is > 80 where the power brutally jumps up to 700W.
- Walk assist doesn't work correctly. The motor is stuttering at start then the power increase and the speed is not correctly regulated.

What could be the reason ? I'm a currently in torque mode but tried with power mode with no change.

Thanks for your help

Matt

 

[Heisenberg60]

I need to buy the lights to be able to debug and them fix this issue.

Your description of the issue makes me wonder If the problem is not the fact we should impose a min current value, like min of 1 amp...

Hi Casainho,

if you want to know which lights i use:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/2020-FalkX-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
sadly they didn`t mention any values for the current drawn.

i`m planning to get some other lights or sinlge LED`s to check if this problem is specific to this set of lights (e.g. through internal electronics of the lights, which might interfere with the motor-controler) or realy dependent on the current.
by the way: what is the function of the ADC lights current offset ?

do you think about 1A for the lights or the whole system ?

EDIT:
tested it today with halogen-type lights, rated at 6v with 2.6W.
So different type of light and higher current rating (i guess, not shure about the LED lights)
The assist is now completly gone and doesn`t even set in anymore.

i guess the problem is realy related to the current which is drawn from the controller and not related to the light-type.

 

[jtsavola]

I need to buy the lights to be able to debug and them fix this issue.

Your description of the issue makes me wonder If the problem is not the fact we should impose a min current value, like min of 1 amp...

Hi Casainho,

if you want to know which lights i use:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/2020-FalkX-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
sadly they didn`t mention any values for the current drawn.

i`m planning to get some other lights or sinlge LED`s to check if this problem is specific to this set of lights (e.g. through internal electronics of the lights, which might interfere with the motor-controler) or realy dependent on the current.
by the way: what is the function of the ADC lights current offset ?

do you think about 1A for the lights or the whole system ?

I'm having Herrmans MR8 front light and three leds+resistor rear. Having same problems. Lights worked OK with stock firmware...

 

[cityboy19]

I`ve just installed my TSDZ2 and flashed the OSF succesfully. this week i drove my first 100km, mostly to and from work.
i realy like the software and the motor, especially that you can adjust basicly anything you want

BUT i encountered one annoying problem:
as soon as i turn on the lights, the motor-support gets messed up.

Is there any quick fix for this problem in the settings ? i already tried the different steps on the ADC lights current offset. :?

I need to buy the lights to be able to debug and them fix this issue.

Your description of the issue makes me wonder If the problem is not the fact we should impose a min current value, like min of 1 amp...

Maybe that's the solution https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-firmware/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike/issues/139#issuecomment-678766584

 

[Acca]

Hello
I have a tsdz2 750w motor and 48v battery.
It did work with stock firmware
I flashed open source modified firmware for vlcd6 and it worked nice

I have just bought and flashed a 860c display that I flashed with v1.0 firmware
I then flashed tsdz2 with firmware 0.57.2
When I turn the display on, I have a "error brakes"
I have red that this means no communication between display and controller but I have wired it like suggested in the wiki.
Can it be a tsdz2 flash error ? When I flashed vlcd6 version I used the tsdz2 GUI, today I used stlink software
Please, how can I solve this problem ?
Thanks

 

[Swannking]

You have to flash the motor also with the v1.0.0 hex file.

 

[dameri]

Hello
I have a tsdz2 750w motor and 48v battery.
It did work with stock firmware
I flashed open source modified firmware for vlcd6 and it worked nice

I have just bought and flashed a 860c display that I flashed with v1.0 firmware
I then flashed tsdz2 with firmware 0.57.2
When I turn the display on, I have a "error brakes"
I have red that this means no communication between display and controller but I have wired it like suggested in the wiki.
Can it be a tsdz2 flash error ? When I flashed vlcd6 version I used the tsdz2 GUI, today I used stlink software
Please, how can I solve this problem ?
Thanks

You must to use the same firmware version on display and motor. If you install to 860C v1.0 you must install to TSDZ2 v1.0 too.